1 1 2 STATE OF NEW YORK COUNTY OF ONONDAGA 3 ------------------------------------------- 4 In the Matter of 5 CONSIDERING DRAFT ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STATEMENT 6 for 7 REGIONAL SOLID WASTE PARTNERSHIP PROJECT 8 9 ------------------------------------------- 10 PUBLIC HEARING in the above matter, conducted at the Van Buren Town Hall, 7575 Van Buren Road, 11 Baldwinsville, New York before, JOHN F. DRURY, CSR, Notary Public in and for the State of New 12 York, on January 6, 2014, 6:30 to 8:40 p.m. 13 ONONDAGA COUNTY LEGISLATORS PRESENT: 14 1st BRIAN F. MAY 2nd (JOHN C. DOUGHERTY not present) 15 3rd JIM CORL 4th JUDITH A. TASSONE 16 5th KATHLEEN A. RAPP 6th (MICHAEL E. PLOCHOCKI not present) 17 7th (DANNY J. LIEDKA not present) 8th CHRISTOPHER J. RYAN 18 9th PEGGY CHASE 10th KEVIN A. HOLMQUIST 19 11th PATRICK M. KILMARTIN 12th DAVID H. KNAPP 20 13th (DEREK T. SHEPARD, JR. not present) 14th CASEY E. JORDAN 21 15th (J. Ryan McMahon not present) 16th (MONICA WILLIAMS not present) 22 17th (LINDA R. ERVIN not present) 23 Clerk of Legislature: Deborah L. Maturo 24 Reported By: John F. Drury, CSR, RPR 25 Court Reporter 471-7397 2 1 2 INDEX TO SPEAKERS 3 SPEAKERS PAGES 4 TODD LUDWIG For 8 5 ROBERT F. DAYS, SR. For 10 VICKI BAKER Against 12 6 PAT BROWN Against 16 RON DUDZINSKI For 23 7 MORRIS BAKER 23 PATRICIA RILEY For 25 8 MIKE RILEY For 29 Letter Magnarelli 32 9 SPVSR CLAUDE SYKES For 34 ANTHONY GEISS For 35 10 JANE BROWN Against 36 KATE BROWN Against 39 11 MARY BROWN Against 42 CHAD NORTON For 44 12 RANDY WOLKEN For 46 KIM HULBERT Against 53 13 FRED BURTCH 54 MARTHA LOEW Against 57 14 JOHN SCIVETTI Against 61 MARK BURGER For 63 15 KRISTEN SCHULIAR Against 64 PAM JENKINS Against 68 16 MAYOR DICK CLARKE 75 ALLISON KING Against 77 17 JOE ESPOSITO For 87 JENNIFER PETERSON For 89 18 PROF. BRIAN McANINCH For 92 CHIEF TOM BOUVIA For 94 19 MIKE RIGNEY Against 96 DON HUGHES Against 98 20 DR. MICHAEL WOLFSON Against 103 CHIEF MICHAEL KNOWLTON 117 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 Legislator Kilmartin 2 MR. KILMARTIN: Good evening ladies 3 and gentlemen. Good evening everyone. 4 Welcome to the Regional Partnership 5 Public Hearing. My name is Pat 6 Kilmartin, I'm Majority Leader for the 7 County Legislature and I'm standing in 8 place of the Chairman of the Legislature 9 Ryan McMahon, who is out of state right 10 now and couldn't be here, he sends his 11 apologies. And we have a number of the 12 Legislators here this evening, not the 13 entirety of the Legislature, but many of 14 them to attend tonight and hear your 15 public comments and thoughts about the 16 topic before us tonight. 17 So at this time I will call the 18 meeting to order, and the public meeting 19 is now called to order for the purpose 20 of considering the Draft Environmental 21 Impact Statement prepared for the 22 Regional Solid Waste Partnership 23 Project, which is under consideration 24 under the State Environmental Quality 25 Review Act. 4 1 Legislator Kilmartin 2 Before we start just a couple of 3 housekeeping items. If everyone, 4 especially considering how tight we are 5 in the room tonight, and just recognize 6 the two exits we have here, and be aware 7 of those as the meeting proceeds. We 8 also ask everyone to, if they could, 9 turn off their cell phones in advance of 10 the hearing just to be respectful of 11 those folks that might be speaking 12 tonight. And I would at this time ask 13 the Clerk to read the notice of the 14 public hearing. 15 CLERK MATURO: Concerning the draft 16 of the -- 17 MR. KNAPP: Waive the reading. 18 MR. KILMARTIN: Motion to waive the 19 reading of just the mere fact that this 20 was published, which is obviously part 21 of the reason why you folks are here 22 tonight. We'll accept the waiver of the 23 reading of the notice previously 24 published. And at this time, Madam 25 Clerk, notice was duly published? 5 1 Legislator Kilmartin 2 CLERK MATURO: It was. 3 MR. KILMARTIN: Okay, thank you. 4 Folks, we have a number of speakers here 5 tonight, and we're very happy to hear 6 your public comments and your thoughts 7 about the topic before us. Just for 8 clarification, again, the specific reason 9 according to applicable law for us here 10 tonight is for comments that we welcome 11 from all you folks relating to the Draft 12 Environmental Impact Statement and the 13 issues that have been brought before the 14 Legislature to date on that. 15 I just want to clarify for whatever 16 it might be worth for folks who are here 17 tonight speaking or listening. There is 18 not before us any kind of issue or any 19 kind of resolution regarding a landfill; 20 just for absolute clarification to 21 everyone. That issue has been brought 22 up to a very very limited degree with 23 the different folks who have come before 24 the Legislature to speak on different 25 issues. But I just wanted to clarify 6 1 Legislator Kilmartin 2 that for anybody who wanted to speak 3 tonight, that the purpose for the meeting 4 is to address the Draft Environmental 5 Impact Statement and all the related 6 issues. So I just wanted to provide 7 that for clarification. 8 We have a number of folks who have 9 signed up to speak tonight. Anyone 10 wishing to speak, we would ask them to 11 sign up at the back of the room, there 12 is a table there, people can provide 13 their names so that they can get on the 14 list to speak tonight. And we'll take 15 folks in the order that they signed up. 16 We're happy to take all those interested 17 in speaking tonight. What we will try 18 to do is call a couple of names at one 19 time. So that people can line up behind 20 the microphone, to help move the process 21 along so you folks aren't here very very 22 late tonight. 23 If possible we would ask people to 24 try to limit their comments to three to 25 four minutes. We don't want to cut 7 1 Legislator Kilmartin 2 anyone off, we want to be very respectful 3 of your comments and your thoughts. But 4 considering the number of people in the 5 room tonight, if it's possible to keep 6 your comments to three or four minutes, 7 I think that would be helpful for the 8 other folks that are here. 9 And we've had a number of hearings 10 on these related topics. If anyone has 11 spoken at a prior public hearing where 12 we've taken public comment with minutes 13 and recordings and so on, and those same 14 people have very similar or duplicate 15 comments, we'd ask them to try to keep 16 those brief, just so those folks who 17 haven't appeared before have a full 18 chance to speak and have their comments 19 being heard. Because at all these 20 public hearings everything is recorded, 21 they're made a part of the record, 22 minutes are created for your review. So 23 just try to be respectful to everybody 24 who has an interest in speaking tonight. 25 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Point of order. 8 1 Legislator Kilmartin 2 Is the Pledge of Allegiance in order 3 here? 4 MR. KILMARTIN: You're absolutely 5 right, I'm more than happy to proceed 6 with that and we have a flag behind us. 7 So I ask everybody to stand up for the 8 Pledge of Allegiance. 9 (Pledge of Allegiance recited). 10 MR. KILMARTIN: All right, so sorry 11 for the length of those introductory 12 comments, just wanted to give you the 13 context of the meeting and the process 14 that we'll try to follow to keep it 15 orderly for everyone. So without 16 further delay I'll call the first few 17 folks who have signed up. The first 18 speaker would be Todd Ludwig. The 19 second will be Robert Days, Senior, and 20 the third would be Vicki Baker. Just as 21 soon as you get to the podium feel free 22 to go right ahead. 23 TODD LUDWIG: Good evening, residents 24 of Onondaga County, my name is Tom 25 Ludwig, I am a resident of Onondaga 9 1 Ludwig 2 County and a neighbor of the Onondaga 3 County waste-to-energy facility. I have 4 been a resident and next door neighbor 5 of the facility for 47 years. 6 Cortland County has come to Onondaga 7 County looking for a better option. I 8 believe OCRRA and Covanta offer the best 9 choice using energy from waste. 10 I am not off the grid. I do not 11 ride a bicycle everywhere I go. I do 12 not live in a tent, nor do the majority 13 of the Central New York residents. I 14 enjoy electricity, a warm home. Winter 15 here is very unforgiving as we all in 16 this room braved through to come here 17 this evening. When you go home this 18 evening your heat will be warming your 19 house, your lights will turn on. Let 20 that continue. 21 The OCRRA Covanta waste-to-energy 22 facility has permitted to process 23 361,350 tons per year, by the New York 24 State DEC. Bringing in Cortland County 25 waste will not exceed that limit. 10 1 Days 2 Cortland County trash processed at the 3 facility will remove many more 4 recyclable materials from the waste 5 stream that at this time are going into 6 Cortland County ground, with no reuse 7 for any generation to follow. 8 I ask of you, my neighbors, 9 residents of Onondaga County, residents 10 of Cortland County, let's make the right 11 choice today. Let the OCRRA Covanta 12 waste-to-energy facility continue to 13 produce renewable energy from the waste 14 both of our counties produce for our 15 generation and all that will occupy this 16 time after we're gone. Thank you. 17 MR. KILMARTIN: Thank you, sir. Up 18 next we have Mr. Days, followed by Vicki 19 Baker, followed by Patrick Brown. 20 ROBERT DAYS: Hello, my name is 21 Robert Days and I have worked for 22 Covanta for 20 years. I believe in fact 23 received from scientific data. The fact 24 is that Covanta Onondaga continually 25 performed well below any federal or 11 1 Days 2 state emissions guidelines proven by its 3 documented award winning environmental 4 performance track record. 5 The Environmental Protection Agency 6 has deemed energy from waste to be 7 higher on the waste hierarchy than 8 landfill is. In fact methane is 20 9 times more potent than CO2 in reference 10 to greenhouse gases affecting the 11 environment. 12 Covanta has helped many organizations 13 which you will hear about, with funding 14 to improve their program. Now with an 15 annual permit to burn 361,350 tons, they 16 would like to help the neighbors such as 17 Cortland County to improve their waste 18 program. We will reduce truck ash, so 19 there will be emission to less distance 20 traveled. We do not come close to 21 burning what we are permitted to and 22 burn less now than what we have in the 23 past. 24 Why not be a good neighbor and clean 25 up the world, not just our back yard. I 12 1 Baker 2 strongly believe in the concept of 3 reuse, recycle and energy from waste. 4 Now let's join OCRRA, Cortland County 5 and Covanta Energy for power today to 6 protect tomorrow. Thank you. 7 MR. KILMARTIN: Thank you, sir. We 8 have Vicki Baker up next, followed by 9 Patrick Brown. 10 VICKI BAKER: I don't want to put my 11 back to all these people. Can you hear 12 me? Good evening. Some of you I might 13 have met years ago when your Legislator 14 was Bob Warner, and I was representing 15 the Dewitt area. Excuse me, I have 16 asthma now, that's why I don't speak as 17 loud as I used to, but. 18 When Bob and I faced the issue of 19 the County siting the incinerator and 20 landfill years ago we drew the short 21 stick. We had to do what we could to 22 represent our community from importation, 23 to try to protect our community. 24 So at this point I'm here because 25 this is the last thing that Van Buren 13 1 Baker 2 should be supporting; because you're 3 still a permitted landfill. And if you 4 can't -- like obviously we thought we 5 were protected by the law that they now 6 want to rescind. They could change 7 their minds on Van Buren at any time. 8 And I don't think you want trash coming 9 in and ending up as ash in Van Buren. 10 Some of the things we faced living 11 near an incinerator obviously is litter 12 along the way, but cancer rates that are 13 now prevalent in our community. We have 14 big things like the ash truck from here 15 to along the Thruway, trash piles up, 16 violations of hydrogen chloride waste. 17 It goes on and on. 18 And so what we did as a community in 19 Dewitt was to become proactive. Because 20 I think we should all be working 21 together for the next seven generations, 22 not pitting ourselves against each 23 other, one community against another is 24 not the way to go. So we became active 25 in Dewitt. We have created a volume- 14 1 Baker 2 based waste reduction system, we joined 3 climate smart communities, we developed 4 a climate action plan, we installed 5 solar panels, and we have an ongoing 6 sustainability plan, we hosted an expert 7 to come and talk to this community about 8 jobs and from recycling. 9 Again, we should be working 10 together. I don't want to say that 11 politicians lie, but things happen and 12 things change. And now they want to 13 change the protection that we have for 14 both of our communities. So it's not 15 just Dewitt. And I urge Van Buren to 16 really look at the implications of 17 supporting importation of waste, because 18 once that slippery slope, once that door 19 opens, there is no turning back. And I 20 urge you to consider the impact. 21 The things that come out of that 22 plant, the fella that was just here, I'm 23 sure a lot of you are not aware, because 24 all you've seen is the advertisement 25 that every day is Thursday, and it's 15 1 Baker 2 clean renewable energy. This is not 3 renewable energy. And the AG's office 4 did a study, that they were probably one 5 of the highest sources of mercury and 6 pollutants in the state. They are not 7 renewable energy. Formaldehyde, 8 benzene, lead, mercury, arsenic, SO2, 9 hydrochloric acid, fine particulates 10 that get into your lungs. 11 I'm a gramma now, and I've come full 12 circle. My son was two and-a-half when 13 we started this mess and so now my third 14 granddaughter was born yesterday. I'm 15 fighting for that next generation and 16 the next seven, and I urge you to work 17 with us to formulate a system for this 18 community, to phase out the incinerator, 19 create jobs from recycling and protect 20 our environment. 21 There is a way to do it, and it's a 22 very simple way, not paying Covanta $14 23 million a year to run this. There are 24 opportunities, and I urge you to take a 25 look. And I'll be happy to send anybody 16 1 Pat Brown 2 information that needs it. 3 As far as the DEIS, there is no 4 information about finances. We're 5 totally lacking on anything that we can 6 comment on. Totally lacking. And the 7 Regional Partnership ought to give us 8 all a clue. What does regional mean? 9 And if they're not talking about other 10 communities, they will be. And I think 11 you better get it in writing. Thank you. 12 MR. KILMARTIN: Patrick Brown next, 13 followed by Ron Dudzinski, followed by 14 Morris Baker. 15 PATRICK BROWN: Good evening, 16 Legislators, thank you for allowing us 17 to have this comment tonight. My name 18 is Patrick Brown, I'm a life long 19 resident of Jamesville, very proud to 20 live there. I am a school administrator 21 for an award winning school district in 22 Central New York. I serve on several 23 community boards in my own community of 24 Jamesville and on the school board as 25 well. 17 1 Pat Brown 2 Tonight I would like to start by 3 reading some statistical information 4 from the Onondaga County Health Department 5 2014 to '17 Community Health Assessment 6 Improvement Plan. All of these quotes 7 come directly from the Plan on the 8 County website. This information comes 9 from a section labeled Key Findings on 10 the Health Status of Onondaga County 11 Residents. 12 Onondaga County fares better than 13 New York state indicators of heart 14 disease. That's great. But worse on 15 indicators of cancer, morbidity and 16 mortality, despite high screening rates. 17 This next information comes from the 18 same Plan, but from a section labeled 19 Cancer. In Onondaga County the 20 incidence of all cancers is increasing. 21 Each week approximately 52 Onondaga 22 County residents are diagnosed with 23 cancer and approximately 19 die from 24 cancer. That's every week. The 25 incidence rates of the three common 18 1 Pat Brown 2 cancers, we have breast, lung and 3 prostate, are statistically 4 significantly higher in Onondaga County 5 compared to New York State and the U.S. 6 Both incidences of mortality from lung 7 cancer is statistically significantly 8 higher in Onondaga County. 9 And a review of the incidences of 10 breast cancer in that same Plan from the 11 findings for Onondaga County for 2005 12 through 2009 by zip code, Jamesville has 13 61 cases of breast cancer observed. 14 40.7 cases were actually expected, based 15 on prior data. The incidences were more 16 than 50 percent above the expected 17 incidence rate. 18 The only other area on that report, 19 and it's all by zip code, that which is 20 close to the incineration plant, that 21 had more than 50 percent above the 22 expected rate was Nedrow, which is right 23 next door to us. All of the other zip 24 codes in Onondaga County were either 25 within or slightly above expected cases. 19 1 Pat Brown 2 No others as high as Jamesville and 3 Nedrow. 4 In the world of education we don't 5 simply collect data, we're expected to 6 use it. We use the data to make 7 informed decisions. When you as a 8 Legislator know about these numbers, and 9 if you don't you should, you should be a 10 alarmed and wondering what environmental 11 impacts are really coming from this 12 plant. Seeing that data on the increase 13 and occurrences of breast cancer over a 14 four to five year period, isolated to 15 one small area, has got to have you 16 wondering. 17 I actually have read about 80 18 percent of the hundreds of pages that 19 are a part of the Draft Environmental 20 Impact Statement document, it took me a 21 long time to do that. Now I've read and 22 worked on creating a lot of documents, 23 policies, plans and etc. in my career, 24 and never have I seen a more contrived 25 piece of work. Every potential impact 20 1 Pat Brown 2 that's listed discusses the 3 collaboration of these two Counties in a 4 no impact statement. That causes me to 5 wonder. From habitat and wetland 6 concerns, to air quality concerns, to 7 health concerns, to pollution concerns, 8 to increased pollution from trucks to 9 hazardous ash residue, this document 10 states in just about every incidence on 11 every page, there will be no 12 environmental impacts. 13 The engineers have used their 14 formulas for calculating no impact 15 pretty well here, and to the advantage 16 of the collaboration. It's like 17 everything is okay. Like no problem, 18 we'll do it to generate our revenue. 19 Well, haven't we already seen an 20 impact? The breast cancer rates in 21 Jamesville alone are out of control, as 22 I've documented to you from your own 23 government data. Lung and prostate 24 incidences continue to rise in this zip 25 code as well as several others close by. 21 1 Pat Brown 2 It's not time to start importing trash 3 from anywhere, it's time to seriously 4 create a Solid Waste Management Plan 5 because we don't have one now; that 6 looks at much more than just revenue. 7 To rescind the law that a former 8 group of Legislators passed, and not 9 that long ago, as a measure to protect 10 the health and welfare of the residents 11 and constituents is abominable. 12 Cortland needs to think in a similar 13 vein. 14 There are not just a few of us that 15 are concerned about this, as stated by 16 several Legislators, including Joanie 17 Mahoney. There have never been just a 18 few. A few people could not have put 19 all the pressure on the Legislators that 20 they did years ago to create the ban 21 that exists on importation. That didn't 22 just magically happen. 23 I'm urging you to start looking at 24 the health data with a close well 25 trained eye and start making connections, 22 1 Pat Brown 2 it's not too late. I requesting you do 3 not rescind the law on the ban on 4 importation of trash from other counties 5 to Onondaga County. I'm also requesting 6 that you, as a group of elected 7 officials, begin to truly practice the 8 Solid Waste Management Plan that 9 addresses the health and welfare of the 10 future generations that are going to 11 reside in the County. 12 This Plan will include a phase out 13 of incineration over a five to seven 14 year period, and begin immediately, not 15 over a five to seven year period, this 16 part is immediately, to investigate and 17 implement increased efforts to reuse, 18 recycle and compost. I'll be happy to 19 direct you to some highly trained 20 professionals and consultants who have 21 expertise in this area and can help you. 22 Thank you. 23 MR. KILMARTIN: Next we have Ron 24 Dudzinski, followed by Morris Baker 25 followed by Patricia Riley and Mike 23 1 Dudzinski/Morris Baker 2 Riley. 3 RON DUDZINSKI: Good evening 4 Legislators, my name is Ron Dodzinsci, 5 I'm one of the Councilors of the Town of 6 Van Buren, and I support the waste to 7 trash. I would like to see us do that. 8 We don't want the landfill out here in 9 the Town of Van Buren, and I'm sure our 10 residents don't want it out here. And 11 that's it, thank you, for your time. 12 MR. KILMARTIN: Thank you, sir. We 13 have Morris Baker next, followed by 14 Patricia Riley and Mike Riley. 15 MORRIS BAKER: I'll speak loud 16 enough, okay? My name is Morris Baker, 17 I'm known by Mo, thanks to my baby 18 sister who couldn't pronounce Morris 19 when she was little, so my family tagged 20 me with that. 21 But in any event this thing that 22 we're talking about tonight needs to be 23 thoroughly, thoroughly investigated 24 before we make any kind of a decision. 25 And nobody allowed, that I remember, 24 1 Morris Baker 2 when they put the gas tanks in, less 3 than a quarter of a mile away from my 4 house, nobody allowed this kind of a 5 meeting. No. It was done because the 6 richest man in the County wanted to put 7 the gas tanks out here and he bought two 8 cheap farms in order to do it. And then 9 we put it in there. 10 I want everybody to give it a 11 serious thought in regards to where this 12 project will go 20 years down the road. 13 Cortland County is the first county. 14 Oswego County will follow, Herkimer 15 County will follow, Cayuga County will 16 follow, Madison County will follow. 17 That plant will not be able to hold or 18 burn all of it. So it will grow also. 19 We need to take things like this 20 into consideration before we really make 21 a decision on it. I'm not saying 22 eliminate it, because it is a good 23 project, and has to be done, okay? But 24 maybe the plant should be moved versus 25 everybody driving trucks in and out, in 25 1 Patricia Riley 2 and out, in and out. I have 24/7 in a 3 day, 24/7 hours a day ash trucks going 4 by my house. And all the County did for 5 me and my neighbors was put in 38 feet 6 of my front lawn. And they wanted me to 7 pay taxes on it. That went over like a 8 fart in church. But in any event, 9 things like this have to be fought over, 10 very very seriously, okay? Thank you 11 for giving me a chance. 12 MR. KILMARTIN: Thank you, sir. We 13 have Patricia Riley, followed by Mike 14 Riley, followed by Claude Sykes and 15 Anthony Geiss. 16 PATRICIA RILEY: Good evening, I'm 17 Patricia Riley, I have a license in 18 maritime engineering and I've been in 19 the power plant industry for over 25 20 years. I understand that this meeting 21 is being held in regards to the proposed 22 ash-for-trash proposal with Cortland 23 County. 24 From what I have read, opponents of 25 the trash-for-ash proposal are openly 26 1 Patricia Riley 2 advocating the waste-to-energy facility 3 in Jamesville should be shut down and 4 Site 31 opened as a trash landfill 5 instead. I personally find this 6 appalling. The systems in the modern 7 waste-to-energy plant make it cleaner 8 than home fireplaces and back yard 9 barbecues. 10 For those of us that understand the 11 science and technology behind these 12 systems, it's like saying, let's take 13 away everyone's cell phone and go back 14 to rotary phones because it was so much 15 simpler to use. We have an award 16 winning waste-to-energy facility that 17 uses the latest technology, decreases 18 the volume of the County's refuse by 90 19 percent, provides electricity to the 20 grid, recovers ferrous and non-ferrous 21 metals from the ash to be recycled, and 22 can also provide ash for landfill cover 23 to replace the virgin soil as a cover. 24 On top of that OCRRA has an award 25 winning recycling program in place. We 27 1 Patricia Riley 2 have an efficient and effective system 3 that is already in place. Why would we 4 want to change that? Adding the cost of 5 running yet another landfill that the 6 taxpayer will have to support just adds 7 insult to injury. Landfills are the 8 least desirable and the last resort in 9 the waste system. 10 Methane has more than 72 times the 11 global warming potential than CO2 over a 12 20 year period. And even where methane 13 gasses are collected methane still seeps 14 into the atmosphere. By allowing ash- 15 for-trash we will effectively be 16 decreasing the methane entering our 17 atmosphere and use ash recovered saving 18 soil for farming and bringing food to 19 our dinner plate. If anything we should 20 expand on the waste-to-energy system we 21 already have in place. 22 Cortland has the sense to recognize 23 what a good thing we have going here and 24 wants to be a part of it. By taking 25 Cortland's trash and providing them with 28 1 Patricia Riley 2 ash we are just doing more of a good 3 thing. To say no, because it's not 4 within our County, I believe is 5 ridiculous. They are within our world, 6 and what they do has a direct impact on 7 all our lives. 8 The emissions from China doesn't 9 stay in China, it doesn't recognize 10 borders and fall from the air when it 11 reaches our borders. We need to educate 12 ourselves, expand our thinking, look at 13 the big picture and do the right thing. 14 Based on the article Methane Versus 15 CO2 Global Warming Potential, focussing 16 disproportionately on controlling those 17 greenhouse gases, like carbon dioxide, 18 that produce warming impacts in the 19 distant future at the expense of not 20 controlling those gases like methane 21 that inflict climate disruption impacts 22 in the immediate future could yield a 23 harvest of regrets. In the words of 24 noble laureate Dr. Kirk R. Smith, doing 25 so engenders the undesirable result of 29 1 Mike Riley 2 spending more money to protect people 3 thousands of years into the future and 4 ignoring the needs of ourselves and our 5 children. Thank you. 6 MR. KILMARTIN: We have Mike Riley, 7 followed by Claude Sykes and Anthony 8 Geiss. 9 MIKE RILEY: My name is Michael 10 Riley, I stand before you today as a 11 concerned veteran and citizen of Onondaga 12 County and the community in general. In 13 discussing whether to landfill or burn, 14 ash-for-trash, smoke or not to smoke, 15 and many other questions in today's 16 society, we create forms, groups of 17 brainstorming to developing new 18 technology. 19 As just an example, I use car 20 emissions. Over a timeline progression 21 of the technology which it doesn't 22 eliminate the pollutants but it 23 continually reduces the pollutants as we 24 progress. 25 I am for the energy-for-waste 30 1 Mike Riley 2 industry because of the fact it exists 3 here in Onondaga County, but not limited 4 to just what I put here. But one, the 5 plant, Covanta facility's long history 6 of past ash testing, Covanta's award 7 winning track record of emission 8 control. The facility's recycling all 9 metals, ferrous and non-ferrous. The 10 electronic waste collection program, and 11 thousand of dollars put into many 12 Community Development programs, such as 13 wildlife sanctuaries such as Webster 14 Pond, and benefitting veterans and the 15 disabled with no help from other local 16 and state institutions. 17 The concern that the energy from 18 waste plants will reduce recycling, that 19 effort is in fact wrong, which can be 20 seen from OCRRA's world class recycling 21 program and Covanta's track record. 22 During the recycling process 23 approximately 15 percent of the recycling 24 volume is waste. The question is where 25 does this waste go? Land-filling, 31 1 Mike Riley 2 energy from waste? The EPA did a 3 website, I'm sorry, the EPA did a study, 4 it's on their website under Science 5 Matters Newsletter. It discuss their 6 findings for greenhouse gas emissions. 7 The study shows that under ideal 8 conditions greenhouse gasses emissions 9 in landfills are two to six times higher 10 than energy from waste plants per unit 11 of electricity produced. 12 So in summary, even if the U.S. 13 doubled its rate of recycling there 14 would still be hundreds of millions of 15 tons of post-recycled and post-composted 16 solid waste. New technology and 17 scientific methods will eventually be 18 discovered and reduce that post- 19 generated waste. So for waste that 20 land-filling is a last resort. 21 So let's use the best available 22 technology to work together as neighbors 23 to solve waste management issues. 24 Therefore, I support ash to trash in the 25 Covanta facility in Jamesville. This is 32 1 Letter from Magnarelli 2 why I believe in reduce, reuse and 3 recycle, recovery, and not landfill. 4 Thank you. 5 MR. KILMARTIN: Following Mr. Sykes 6 and Mr. Geiss is Jane Brown followed by 7 Kate Brown. 8 CLAUDE SYKES: Claude Sykes, I'm the 9 Town Supervisor here in the Town of Van 10 Buren. Welcome to Van Buren, sorry it's 11 so cold tonight, sorry it's so crowded 12 up there, but you took our sales tax 13 money so we couldn't accommodate you 14 better. 15 MR. KILMARTIN: Surprised it took 16 you that long to bring that up, Claude. 17 CLAUDE SYKES: Assemblyman 18 Magnarelli contacted me this afternoon, 19 his office did, he's an in Albany, and 20 he sent out a statement he would like me 21 to read on his behalf: 22 "It is my intention to fully support 23 any opposition to the location of a 24 landfill site being located off 25 Brickyard Road in the Town of Van Buren, 33 1 Letter from Magnarelli 2 as part of the proposal being discussed 3 regarding the ash-for-trash Solid Waste 4 Management Partnership between Onondaga 5 and Cortland County. I am in accord 6 with Supervisor Sykes' statement that 7 the Brickyard Road site should not now, 8 once again, become a consideration for a 9 landfill that's the current agreement 10 between Onondaga County and Cortland 11 County fails. I am pleased to read that 12 Onondaga County Chairman Ryan McMahon 13 stated that the Brickyard Road site in 14 Van Buren is not being considered as an 15 alternative. 16 I want my position to be perfectly 17 clear, that a landfill in Van Buren 18 should not be an alternative now or in 19 the future. Assemblyman Bill 20 Magnarelli." 21 And I heard your comments about the 22 landfill. I would like to say it's near 23 and dear to our heart, but it's not. So 24 there will be a couple comments in my 25 comments. 34 1 Sykes 2 Thank you for holding this hearing 3 here in Van Buren, where the town and 4 its residents have a vested interest and 5 they're stakeholders in the business of 6 waste disposal for the County. 7 The Town of Van Buren fully supports 8 the trash-for-ash concept and believes 9 it is the most feasible option, since it 10 offers the best economic and 11 environmental solutions and utilizes 12 existing infrastructure facilities and 13 improves efficiencies in doing so. 14 The Town of Van Buren wants to go on 15 record, as it has historically, as being 16 vehemently opposed to Site 31 ever being 17 utilized as a landfill for ash or raw 18 garbage, and will vigorously oppose any 19 attempts to do so as we have before. 20 We applaud OCRRA's efforts in 21 bringing the trash-for-ash concept into 22 consideration and urges the Legislature 23 to adopt this Plan. We feel this is a 24 no-brainer decision since it offers huge 25 cost avoidance and is environmentally 35 1 Geiss 2 sound. Thank you. 3 MR. KILMARTIN: Thank you. 4 ANTHONY GEISS: Good evening, I'm 5 Anthony Geiss, I've been a resident of 6 Onondaga County all my life; a resident 7 out here in the Town of Van Buren for 8 over 40 years; and I've been involved in 9 the town government here for over 30 10 years and currently serve as the Chair 11 of the Planning Board. 12 I am here to speak to the Draft 13 Environmental Statement. I am in favor 14 of the trash-for-ash that you are 15 considering at this time. This is a 16 regional solid waste solution for the 17 County and for the general Central New 18 York area. 19 As with Claude, I can't go without 20 saying something about Site 31. I've 21 been involved in that for, 20 years ago 22 I actually sat on the Committee for 23 Compensation for the Neighbors at that 24 time. I challenged, along with many of 25 my neighbors and other town residents, 36 1 Jane Brown 2 the viability of that being here in the 3 town. And I continue to challenge the 4 viability; it's been 20 years. The 5 environmental review would require major 6 rework to even be considered again, and 7 also the compliance with the new regs 8 that are involved today. So again, I am 9 in favor of the regional solid waste 10 solution. I see it as a benefit to all 11 of Onondaga County. Thank you. 12 MR. KILMARTIN: We have Jane Brown 13 next, followed by Kate Brown, followed 14 by Mary Brown and Chad Norton. 15 JANE BROWN: Hello everyone, my name 16 is Jane Brown and I am a new media 17 marketing manager at Rochester Institute 18 of Technology and have been a resident 19 of Jamesville my whole life. 20 I just want to begin by saying that 21 no corporation has given me any 22 incentive or contacted me to speak here 23 tonight on their behalf. I would like 24 to discuss some facts about the so 25 called waste-to-energy facilities, 37 1 Jane Brown 2 including the Jamesville plant. 3 I hope that you as a Legislature 4 know that there is no such thing as 5 waste-to-energy. Waste-to-energy is a 6 public relations term used by 7 incinerator promoters, including the 8 promotor who operate the Jamesville 9 facility, but it's not an accurate term 10 scientifically as there is no such 11 thing. In the bigger picture they are 12 waste-of-energy facilities. They are 13 built to burn trash. The small amount 14 of electricity produced is a secondary 15 function and a sales pitch. 16 Scientifically, there is no such 17 thing as waste-to-energy. Matter cannot 18 be turned into energy without a nuclear 19 reaction, and that's not what happens 20 with incinerators. Anyone who is an 21 advocate for the environment has come to 22 call the waste-to-energy facilities 23 waste-of-energy facilities, because they 24 know that recycling and composting the 25 same discarded materials saves three to 38 1 Jane Brown 2 five times as much energy as incinerators 3 can ever recover. Municipal solid 4 waste, trash incineration, is the most 5 expensive and polluting way to manage 6 waste or to make energy. 7 Incineration is a dirty word, and 8 the industry who operates incinerators 9 knows it, so they use other terms to 10 make it sound good, like resource 11 recovery, trash-to-steam, waste-to- 12 energy, renewable energy and energy from 13 waste. All of these terms are 14 untruthful and misleading. 15 Additionally, incinerators are 16 terrible ways to produce jobs. For 17 every 10,000 tons of waste processed per 18 year, incinerators and landfills create 19 one job, while recycling facilities 20 create 10 jobs and reuse, remanufacturing 21 and repairing materials create far more, 22 20 to 300 jobs, depending on the 23 material. 24 With a national recycling rate of 25 less than 33 percent, the U.S. recycling 39 1 Jane Brown/Kate Brown 2 industries currently provides over 3 800,000 jobs. On a national recycling 4 rate of 75 percent create 1.5 million 5 jobs. Now that is a plan to work 6 toward. Stop the ridiculous 7 conversations that continuing of this 8 waste-to-energy for 20 more years for 9 Onondaga County and start trying to keep 10 young people, like me, here and healthy 11 and employed. 12 You have a big decision to make. 13 But I have to say that the decision 14 should be clear to you. Incinerators 15 stop forward movement towards zero 16 waste. Waste-to-energy is simply not 17 the case, it is a waste-of-energy. This 18 industry creates no jobs and creates a 19 very grim future for the young people of 20 this Country. Do you want to be the 21 leaders who are responsible for that? 22 Thank you. 23 KATE BROWN: Hello again Legislators, 24 my name is Kate Brown, I'm 12 years old 25 and in 7th grade. Last time I spoke to 40 1 Kate Brown 2 you I told you about how my 3rd grade 3 class took a trip to the incinerator. 4 After giving us the tour they proceeded 5 to tell us all the good things the 6 incinerator does for our County. And 7 that the air is filtered and is 8 improving our air quality all while 9 powering 30,000 homes a year. These are 10 the lies that have been fed to us by 11 Covanta. I would just like to say this 12 is only partly true. 13 Yes, it may power 30,000 homes a 14 year, but there are hundreds of thousands 15 of homes in Onondaga County. The air 16 coming out of the stacks may be lightly 17 filtered but it's still ridden with 18 lead, dioxin, mercury, arsenic and who 19 knows what else. And now they are 20 trying to bring in another County's 21 trash as well, increasing the amount of 22 chemicals coming out of the stack. 23 Bringing in Cortland County's trash 24 would burn up to 25,000 tons a year from 25 the neighboring Cortland County. In 41 1 Kate Brown 2 return Onondaga's incinerator would send 3 up to 90,000 tons of ash to Cortland's 4 landfill. Burning trash is a toxic 5 outdated method. Tons of other counties 6 and even states have integrated more 7 recycling, and some have even totally 8 eliminated the idea of an incinerator. 9 We can too integrate more recycling 10 and composting in our County. It is 11 very simple and not time consuming at 12 all. Many do not use a composter or do 13 not recycle because they don't have 14 enough time or it's not efficient. All 15 it takes is a couple seconds to throw 16 your piece of paper into the recycling 17 bin rather than the trash can or walk 18 outside and turn the crank on your 19 composters. There are other methods of 20 getting rid of trash that aren't harmful. 21 As I grow up here in Onondaga County, I 22 would like to see my community grow, not 23 die of cancerous emissions that are 24 supposed to be clean. And with that I 25 urge you to veto the idea of bringing in 42 1 Kate Brown 2 Cortland County's trash. Thank you. 3 MR. KILMARTIN: We have Mary Brown 4 next, followed by Chad Norton and 5 followed by Randy Wolken. 6 MARY BROWN: My name is Mary Brown, 7 I live and care for my family and 8 extended family in Onondaga County. I 9 have a BS in hotel management and MBA 10 from Marist College, as well as a CAS in 11 Executive Leadership. I am speaking 12 tonight because I am a college professor 13 who teaches business and ethics and 14 morals to young people of this area. I 15 live my life by walking the talk and I 16 hope as elected officials you do as well. 17 Tonight I would like to speak 18 briefly about the decision you will have 19 to make, and tenacity. It is easy to 20 admire courage doing the right thing 21 despite fear or danger, but tenacity can 22 be hard to understand. Tenacious people 23 can be irritating, and we often dismiss 24 them by saying they have a bee under 25 their bonnet or need to get a life. One 43 1 Kate Brown 2 person's moral imperative is often 3 another's minor preference. 4 Some people work hard to save the 5 air and the environment, while others 6 pay no attention to this issue. But 7 these differences are not arbitrary or 8 quirky, they are personal, deep-rooted, 9 and tell us who someone really is. They 10 tell us who you are, County Legislators, 11 and where your morals and principles lie. 12 As leaders you have found that some 13 people, decision or event got under your 14 skin. You have felt that you had to do 15 something about it because it affected 16 you in a strong personal way. You did 17 not get involved or take action because 18 you thought something was wrong, you 19 also felt something was wrong. As 20 Legislators you don't act because you 21 think you should, but because you have 22 no choice. 23 Tenacity matters, because as County 24 leaders you often face uphill battles. 25 You may feel more like a bug than the 44 1 Kate Brown/Norton 2 windshield. In many cases you may feel 3 alone and isolated and have to work hard 4 and long to achieve what you believe is 5 important. In short, your efforts may 6 resemble a long guerilla war rather than 7 a glorious cavalry charge. This 8 prospect discourages some people from 9 acting or persevering, but not you, you 10 are our County Legislators. 11 Let the young future business 12 leaders of this area see that you have 13 acted because you care and that your 14 motives are strong and ethical. Be 15 tenacious, protect our air, our health 16 and the environment for generations to 17 come. I implore you to have the courage 18 to do the right thing; no ash-for-trash. 19 MR. KILMARTIN: Thank you. We have 20 Chad Norton, followed by Randy Wolken, 21 followed by Kim Hulbert. 22 CHAD NORTON: I am here before you 23 to say my support for the ash-for-trash 24 and the Covanta Jamesville facility. 25 When I was younger I didn't really 45 1 Norton 2 understand the purpose of recycling or 3 the importance of it. I have since 4 became involved with the Covanta 5 facility and have much better 6 understanding of what they are all about. 7 Covanta of Onondaga supplies energy 8 from trash to 30,000 homes. I know some 9 people think that they pollute, and I 10 can't say that they don't, but 11 statistics show that the plant is way 12 below their emission standards set by 13 the NYS DEC. The plant themselves have 14 received, excuse me, a gold excellence 15 award for their trash to energy three 16 years out of 10. 17 I recently toured the Covanta 18 facility and I have a much better 19 understanding about how they operate and 20 how the trash is separated safely and 21 efficiently. I urge anybody that would 22 like to, set up a tour if you don't 23 understand Covanta. And they don't only 24 burn trash, they support the community. 25 By the way, my name is Chad Norton, and 46 1 Wolken 2 from the Anglers Association of 3 Onondaga. Most of you Legislators 4 probably know me, I've been before you a 5 couple of times. But at any rate, I 6 would like to thank Covanta for helping 7 us to support the recent project to make 8 Webster pond environmentally friendly 9 with a handicapped accessible ramp. And 10 I vote yes on the ash-for-trash. Thank 11 you, very much. 12 MR. KILMARTIN: Thank you, sir. We 13 have Randy Wolken, followed by Kim 14 Hulbert, followed by Fred Burtch and 15 Martha Loew. 16 RANDY WOLKEN: Just like to thank 17 you for allowing us to speak this 18 evening. My name is Randy Wolken, 19 president of MACNY, the manufacturers 20 association. As many of you know, MACNY 21 is the association representing over 330 22 member companies with 55,000 employees 23 within a 26 county region, including 24 Onondaga and Cortland County. And we 25 exist actually to advocate for the 47 1 Wolken 2 growth and development of the 3 manufacturing sector within New York 4 State. We were founded in 1913 and we 5 advocate for the manufacturing sector to 6 grow and thrive in today's competitive 7 market. 8 I come here today to offer MACNY's 9 support for the Onondaga Solid Waste 10 Management Plan, and specifically 11 incorporating the new trash-for-ash 12 plan, which has been negotiated with 13 Cortland County. 14 As you are well aware the community 15 has distinguished itself nationally for 16 the outstanding programs and progressive 17 modern waste management. It's important 18 for us to continue these efforts and the 19 reputation we deservedly earned. With 20 one such way being the trash-for-ash 21 proposal between OCCRA, Cortland County. 22 The trash-for-ash proposal makes our 23 community more attractive as we attempt 24 to keep growing and attract new jobs 25 connecting online activities. 48 1 Wolken 2 Additionally, the cost savings for the 3 region with this partnership is quite 4 significant. These savings from the new 5 agreement with Cortland County will be 6 shared between residents, businesses and 7 institutions and municipalities in both 8 counties. 9 As president of the business trade 10 association based right here in Onondaga 11 County it's one of my many roles and 12 responsibilities to support services 13 that provide benefits to local 14 manufacturers. The services that 15 Covanta provides to the region are 16 exemplary. And the example of a local 17 business not only dedicated to its 18 business and employees but our community 19 as a whole. 20 Covanta Energy waste disposal 21 services have been a benefit to the 22 region's businesses and residents alike. 23 One such way to have been a benefit to 24 the community is through its good paying 25 high quality jobs, and its overall 49 1 Wolken 2 contribution to our region's economy. 3 Additionally, the facility located 4 here in Syracuse calls for the benefits 5 of many local businesses and their 6 vendors, whether it's through 7 contractors for maintenance repairs or 8 purchases for local goods and services 9 for their facility. Collectively this 10 amounts to millions of dollars directly 11 into our local economy. 12 Another benefit Covanta Energy has 13 brought to our region is providing a 14 service that allows for ease of 15 responsible and environmentally sound 16 waste disposal. An absolute necessity 17 for any modern manufacturing facility. 18 The facility was designated and designed 19 with original intent to process both 20 residential and commercial waste for the 21 County after reuse, reduction and 22 recycling efforts were completed. And 23 any waste has been either processed into 24 clean renewable energy or properly 25 land-filled. 50 1 Wolken 2 These days much emphasis on 3 government oversight has to do with 4 responsible clean up and an environmental 5 responsibility, with high cost often 6 associated. Manufacturers here 7 regionally take this responsibility very 8 seriously. And with the long time 9 partnership with Covanta and their waste 10 disposal services they're allowed to 11 conduct every day business while working 12 with Covanta services to enable proper 13 waste practices to be followed, and 14 therefore abide by all these 15 environmental regulations. 16 Another significant benefit Covanta 17 services is its regional location, 18 allowing for significant cost reduction, 19 especially to manufacturers. Prior to 20 the construction of the Jamesville 21 facility manufacturers had no choice but 22 to transport their waste to a landfill 23 in Pennsylvania, over 300 miles away. 24 Transporting over state lines and other 25 variables, and ensuring the safe 51 1 Wolken 2 delivery of disposal of that waste made 3 for 30 to 50 percent higher costs to 4 these businesses. During such difficult 5 economic times the manufacturers cannot 6 afford to add these burdens to their 7 overhead cost. 8 By maintaining an environmentally 9 sound top quality facility here in our 10 region for businesses to properly 11 dispose of their waste, Covanta insists 12 on keeping our region's businesses costs 13 to a minimum. 14 Another benefit Covanta Energy 15 brings to the region is its long time 16 dedication and commitment to best safety 17 practices. For over a hundred years 18 MACNY has been an integral part of best 19 safety practices for businesses. We 20 take great pride in recognizing regional 21 businesses for their quality, continuing 22 services and safety and business 23 support. 24 As a long time MACNY member I'm 25 pleased to report that Covanta has been 52 1 Wolken 2 recognized multiple times by MACNY and 3 its partners for quality and safety 4 practices, including the MACNY OSHA 5 Alliance Safety Award, for best 6 practices in their economics, overall 7 Safety Best Practices and we also have 8 awarded them the outstanding support 9 award from MACNY's Safety Management 10 Council. 11 As you can see, Covanta is 12 undoubtedly an asset in this region. 13 And one that our residents and 14 businesses would certainly miss should 15 their services be discontinued. Their 16 continued dedication to supporting MACNY 17 member businesses and other businesses 18 and residents, coupled with their 19 undisputed best practices and commitment 20 to quality of service makes Covanta 21 Energy now not only an integral part of 22 our businesses, but the region as a 23 whole. 24 We're proud to support Covanta in 25 the trash-for-ash proposal and look 53 1 Hulbert 2 forward to them providing our region 3 with top quality services for years to 4 come. Thank you. 5 MR. KILMARTIN: We have Kim Hulbert, 6 followed by Fred Burtch, followed by 7 Martha Loew. 8 KIM HULBERT: Hello, thank you for 9 letting me speak today. My name is 10 Kimberly Hulbert as you mentioned. As a 11 resident of Jamesville for over 40 years 12 I disapprove this projet and the 13 increased airborne pollutants that will 14 affect our environment. 15 I've seen many, many neighbors, over 16 half the folks on the street I grew up 17 on, less than a mile from the plant, 18 they've either died of cancer over the 19 past 30 years or contracted some form of 20 it. Some include, Rita Freeman, Ralph 21 Hawkins, Mr. and Mrs. Hemmer, Lucy 22 Hawkins, Phil Pinn, Linda Brennan, 23 Wilford Brown, and my father, to name a 24 few. 25 Why would we want to increase the 54 1 Hulbert 2 airborne emissions? For years I've seen 3 the Department of Health with trucks at 4 the corner of Southwood collecting air 5 samples. Clearly this has already been 6 a concern for over 20 years. 7 I feel that many of those who have 8 spoken for the ash-for-trash project do 9 not live in the close vicinity of the 10 plant, therefore would not necessarily 11 be impacted directly with the 12 carcinogenics and environmental hazards 13 of this proposal to their immediate 14 families. I think they would think 15 differently if they did live closer. 16 I'm concerned about the long term 17 health risks to my family, friends and 18 community of being outside and breathing 19 the air on a daily basis now and for the 20 generations to come. Money isn't 21 everything. 22 MR. KILMARTIN: Mr. Burtch, followed 23 by Ms. Loew, followed by John Scivetti. 24 FRED BURTCH: Hi, my name is Fred 25 Burtch, I'm a life-long resident of the 55 1 Burtch 2 Town of Lysander and a business owner 3 there. I'm here on behalf of relatives 4 and friends that reside in the immediate 5 area surrounding Site 31 off Brickyard 6 Road. I just wanted to thank this body 7 for welcoming people here to speak their 8 mind tonight. I wanted to thank 9 everybody who came up and spoke tonight. 10 One of the ideas that I've heard 11 tonight that I think is a fantastic 12 direction to take and something that, 13 you know, I've only seen one person 14 mentioned, is the administrator from 15 Dewitt who mentioned that, how important 16 it is to look at the long term plan. I 17 think that's something that we should be 18 looking at now and so that it doesn't 19 become a problem 5, 10 years down the 20 road from now. 21 I own property that's located on 22 Church Road in Lysander. I had 23 experience, it's a property that 24 belonged to my grandparents, it's been 25 in the family a long time, and I have 56 1 Burtch 2 experience with the landfill being 3 located extremely close. The old 4 landfill used to be on Town Line Road. 5 And my grandparents property is located 6 roughly about two miles away from that. 7 And I can tell you every time we went 8 out there to visit the stench that was 9 carried, just happened to be downwind 10 from that area. 11 And another concern that is never 12 talked about is, you know, the animals 13 that come into the area that weren't 14 part of the area when it started, 15 specifically birds and the seagulls and 16 everything which bring in contamination. 17 That's one thing that should be 18 considered. 19 I decided to do some research on 20 this, a little bit of research, spent 21 the better half of an afternoon 22 contacting people and looking online, 23 and I found out that Site 31 has a DEC 24 permit until I believe March of 2016. 25 And I was interested in knowing if this 57 1 Burtch 2 body had any intentions at all in 3 extending that permit beyond that time 4 period. 5 And then the last thing I would like 6 to mention is, I had an opportunity to 7 speak with three town supervisors who 8 run towns in the immediate area of where 9 Site 31 is being proposed. And the one 10 overriding thing that kept coming up is, 11 Fred, we don't have the infrastructure 12 for that. The roads aren't properly 13 built for it. There's millions of 14 dollars that are going to have to be 15 invested in that to where it would be 16 compliant for that type of thing. And I 17 just wanted to mention those points and 18 make sure there was something that you 19 guys had considered. And appreciate 20 your time. Thank you. 21 MR. KILMARTIN: Martha Loew, 22 followed by John Scivetti, followed by 23 Mark Burger and followed by Dr. Robinson. 24 MARTHA LOEW: My name is Martha 25 Loew, I represent Sierra Club in the 58 1 Loew 2 Central New York area. And Sierra Club 3 is definitely on record as not in favor 4 of the incineration, and has 5 recommendations including from a fella 6 named Neil Feldman. We brought him here 7 about a month ago, and we met with 8 various people within -- oh, I live in 9 Jamesville by the way, and I'm a cancer 10 survivor. And he recommends that we 11 change our habits and take a five year 12 look at the incinerator and take gradual 13 reductions of all the waste that we have 14 by recycling waste and making them into 15 useful products. This is a way to 16 slowly get out of the dilemma that we're 17 in. The machine is there. And we put 18 it there. But I think it's time to take 19 it down. 20 And so as Sierra Club, also speaking 21 to the DEIS, there is no environmental 22 impact record recorded for any plants, 23 animals, so forth and so on. 24 Also in the financial area there are 25 lots of limitations that are not 59 1 Loew 2 mentioned. The permits that everybody 3 talks about that is saying oh, they're 4 great, we come under the threshold, they 5 are note permits, they are permission 6 and money paid to pollute. Those 7 permits, if you look at them, you have 8 okay, you have so many emissions up to 9 this amount. And for all of those, as 10 long as you're not over this top, if you 11 pay us enough money we'll let you do 12 that. So it's really permission to 13 pollute. That's what all those numbers 14 are about. And we are at the top of 15 almost all of them. So all in all with 16 the permits we've paid over the life of 17 the plant $6 million. That's not 18 mentioned, and the financing is not 19 mentioned in the DEIS. It says we want 20 to do it. 21 The other thing is the other place 22 other than the financing, the community 23 agreement with the Town (sic) of Onondaga 24 is costing, has cost us $4 million to 25 date. So that incinerator is not what 60 1 Loew 2 it's happily led to believe. It's not 3 just the thing that eats up your waste, 4 it costs you a lot of money. And there 5 are a lot of better ways to do something 6 about it. 7 So I urge you to take our 8 recommendation at the Sierra Club would 9 be to take, go for a five year plan, 10 which I've been told Covanta won't 11 accept. But if we push and say I think 12 we can do that, if we had a five year 13 plan and gradually reduce, because you 14 can't just suddenly cut the thing down, 15 but five year plan gives you time to 16 develop jobs, industries through your 17 recycled materials and get all of those 18 pollutants out of Jamesville. 19 And believe me, it's true, whoever 20 mentioned the people in Jamesville, the 21 number of friends and relatives and 22 neighbors that I have that have cancer 23 are incredible. And I'm one. 24 I got a note that says, from some of 25 the people who are worried about the 61 1 Scivetti 2 time used up for things, please, Van 3 Buren we are not pushing a landfill, 4 okay? Thank you. 5 JOHN SCIVETTI: Good evening, I'm 6 John Scivetti, I'm 33 years old, I have 7 two siblings, I have an older brother 36 8 years old, a young sister who's 30 years 9 old. We all have cancer. And we all 10 grew up in Jamesville. Eating from our 11 garden, and whatever chickens, cows and 12 pigs my family raised for food. This 13 past year in June with all the doctors, 14 they all had the same questions and 15 thoughts, they all thought that it could 16 not be generic because it affected all 17 of us. 18 My sister had some generic testing 19 done, it came a back as inconclusive. 20 They all asked if we were exposed to 21 something. So I started thinking, what 22 could it be? The only thing I could 23 come up with was the incinerator in 24 Jamesville. After doing some light 25 reading on the Internet about the plant, 62 1 Scivetti 2 I cannot sit and ignore the potential 3 cancer creator we call an incinerator. 4 When I talk to people about it they say 5 the same thing: Well, you can't really 6 prove it that that's the cause. But the 7 lack of independent testing, I say to 8 you, you cannot prove that it wasn't the 9 cause. 10 The ash-for-trash deal is a slippery 11 slope. If we allow garbage to be 12 brought in now, where does it stop? I 13 cannot take the word of people that 14 promised 20 or so years ago that it 15 wouldn't get to this point, but here we 16 are today. So I beg our County 17 Legislature and OCRRA board members, do 18 not be lazy and take the easy way out. 19 Instead, think of the future. It's 20 already too late for me and my family, 21 but not too late for my nieces and 22 nephews and for all of you. Let's move 23 forward with a goal of zero waste and 24 make Onondaga County an industry leader 25 in recycling. Thank you. 63 1 Burger 2 MR. KILMARTIN: We have next Mark 3 Burger, followed by Dr. Robinson, 4 followed by Kristen Schuliar. 5 MARK BURGER: Hello, I'm Mark Burger 6 I'm the Director of the Soil and Water 7 Conservation District in Onondaga County, 8 here on behalf of the board of 9 directors. 10 Want to let you know of the strong 11 partnership Covanta Energy has had with 12 the Soil and Water District since 1997. 13 3,800 students have been put through an 14 environmental education program because 15 of their support of $85,000 over all 16 those years. 17 Our district board also wants you to 18 know a strong partnership that we have 19 with award winning OCRRA and their award 20 winning programs. The district and 21 OCRRA work very hard to distribute tree 22 seedlings to our residents and businesses 23 in Onondaga County every spring. And we 24 do that by providing the tree seedlings 25 and compost to those folks to help 64 1 Burger 2 reforest our communities, reduce our 3 carbon footprint and create wildlife 4 habitat and make our place in the world 5 better to live in. 6 So on behalf of the board of 7 directors of the Onondaga County Soil 8 and Water Conservation District, we 9 support the County ash-for-trash 10 opportunity with Cortland County. We 11 see it as a great way to continue 12 growing environmental education and 13 outreach programs for the residents and 14 businesses in our community. Thank you. 15 MR. KILMARTIN: Next we have 16 Dr. Robinson followed by Kristen 17 Schuliar, followed by Pam Jenkins. 18 Chuck Schmurtz? 19 KRISTEN SCHULIAR: I'm here, 20 Kristen, but is the other person, 21 Dr. Robinson here? 22 MR. KILMARTIN: Must be the 23 handwriting, is there a Chuck Schmurtz? 24 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. 25 MR. KILMARTIN: Go right ahead, 65 1 Schuliar 2 ma'am. 3 KRISTEN SCHULIAR: Hi, my name is 4 Kristen Schuliar, long time resident of 5 Jamesville. I grew up here in Jamesville. 6 And I worked in Connecticut, lived there 7 for ten years, just recently moved back. 8 I'm a young professional in my 30s. I 9 have serious concern about that plant 10 and the cancer impact there. Very, very 11 concerned about the health and the 12 environment impacts. Especially if 13 we're going to expand our trash burning 14 to import trash from Cortland County and 15 other counties. As other people said, 16 this is a very slippery slope. 17 This isn't, you know, other people 18 mentioned, it's not all about money. I 19 also had a family member that died from 20 cancer. Everyone also on my street, I 21 had almost every single person on that 22 street passed away from cancer. This 23 isn't a joke. This isn't about money. 24 This isn't about oh, let's go send our 25 trash to Jamesville, they'll deal with 66 1 Schuliar 2 it. 3 Oh, you know, somebody also said 4 something about it's cleaner than 5 burning in your fireplace. I don't 6 believe that. The cancer rate you heard 7 that gentleman, young gentleman, my age, 8 who has cancer. So this is serious 9 stuff. This isn't about money. This 10 isn't about what kind of deals you guys 11 are making. We need to do what's best 12 for the Jamesville community. I also 13 heard Van Buren people saying they don't 14 want a trash site in their community. 15 But let's ship it to Jamesville so we 16 can get cancer. It doesn't add up. 17 So you know, we have to be really 18 careful. As I said, I had a family 19 member that died from cancer. I am 20 frightened of cancer. When I hear a 21 gentleman say that he had cancer, he's 22 like 33, you know what I mean? Almost 23 every single person I know in Jamesville 24 is getting some kind of cancer. So all 25 this about how, you know, it's so, it's 67 1 Schuliar 2 so efficient, it's so much cleaner, it's 3 not true. The cancer rates do not 4 support that. 5 I heard another business 6 representative talking about cost 7 savings. Will they use that cost 8 savings to pay for our cancer treatment? 9 It's an honest question, right? I think 10 this was already stated, but I think we 11 need to restate it again. You know, and 12 this is from the Onondaga County 13 Community Health Assessment and 14 Improvement Plan from 2014 to 2017. 15 Each week approximately 52 Onondaga 16 County residents are diagnosed with 17 cancer. And approximately 19 residents 18 die from cancer, okay? And I'm not 19 talking as some stupid kid here. I am a 20 working professional, doing well in my 21 career, moving back here. And I have 22 some serious concerns as anyone who is 23 intelligent would have about this area, 24 especially Jamesville. So I think we 25 definitely need to find some alternative 68 1 Jenkins 2 opportunities to burning our trash, 3 slowly phase that out and kind of come 4 up with a cleaner safer plan for all of 5 us. So thank you very much, I 6 appreciate you guys listening. 7 MR. KILMARTIN: Thank you, ma'am. 8 Next we have Pam Jenkins, followed by 9 Dick Clarke, followed by Allison King. 10 PAM JENKINS: Good evening, my name 11 is Pam Jenkins and I live in Cortland 12 County. A number of us in Cortland 13 County have been studying the ash-for- 14 trash proposal for a year and-a-half. I 15 believe it was May of 2013 an agreement 16 in principle to pursue the ash-for-trash 17 project was signed between Onondaga 18 County, OCRRA and Cortland County. This 19 was -- this agreement was signed before 20 it was ever discussed in public. And 21 secret negotiations with OCRRA and 22 Onondaga County continue to this day. 23 This is beyond an abuse of the open 24 government requirement, it's scandalous. 25 Most of the 50 pages of my comments 69 1 Jenkins 2 and questions have been electronically 3 submitted to accompany this testimony. 4 Last night we had our DEIS public 5 hearing in Cortland. We're a small 6 County, we are 50,000 people, we have 7 more cows than people in our County, but 8 70 people showed up, 20 people spoke. 9 All of them were in opposition to 10 ash-for-trash. Not one person spoke in 11 favor of it. 12 Next issue, there can absolutely be 13 no excuse for not requiring a complete 14 Health Impact Assessment for federal CDC 15 protocols be done in each County. Your 16 last one was what, I don't know, 30 17 years ago. Okay, you can't rely on 18 information from 30 years ago. We have 19 learned a lot in 30 years. We have 20 learned extremely much about how 21 dangerous those emissions are. 22 The Cortland County Health 23 Department recommended that a Health 24 Impact Assessment be done for Cortland 25 County. This recommendation was ignored 70 1 Jenkins 2 in the DEIS. Current medical knowledge 3 recognizes that incinerator emissions 4 and incinerator ash contains these 5 causing toxins. We want to know how 6 many excess cancers and other diseases 7 are expected to be caused by continued 8 operation of the incinerator and the 9 projected ash dump. 10 The OCRRA incinerator uses old 11 technology, creates dioxins, acid, 12 vaporized metals and releases the most 13 hazardous PMs, 2.5 and .5. No one in 14 this room can deny that. OCRRA does not 15 control for a PM 2.5 or 5. No one in 16 this room can say that they do. Those 17 air emissions float around in every 18 direction, they're precipitated out into 19 fields into water into people's gardens. 20 And they fall on school yards too. The 21 four mile impact contains very many 22 public schools. 23 We pointed out in the scope and the 24 final scope and the DEIS, that they were 25 each grossly lacking and they were not 71 1 Jenkins 2 even compliant with SEQRA law. Financial 3 and budget details have been concealed. 4 SEQRA law says these must be in the DEIS 5 and they are absent. SEQRA law says 6 that there must be a discussion of 7 catastrophic consequences but they're 8 absent in the DEIS. 9 The DEIS failed to discuss that the 10 closest DEC critical environmental area 11 is just downhill from the Cortland 12 landfill. This is McGraw's watershed, 13 it's their public water supply. Several 14 creeks that drain, the landfill run 15 right past the McGraw's public water 16 supply to join the Tioughnioga and flow 17 to the Chesapeake Bay. 18 Most of our written and spoken 19 questions and comments have not been 20 addressed. They do not appear in the 21 DEIS. The information we requested is 22 absent. Open Meetings Law continues to 23 be violated by secret meetings and 24 denials for the information which is our 25 right to access. Our FOIL requests are 72 1 Jenkins 2 denied. The Committee on Open 3 Government issued an advisory decision 4 that did not agree with Cortland 5 withholding of the information that we 6 requested and I can forward to any of 7 you if you request it. 8 There is no basis upon which we can 9 see how your decisions are being made. 10 We see that most of the DEIS is based 11 upon glowing statements about how 12 wonderful it would be, how profitable it 13 will be, how safe it will be. But this 14 is written by writers, it's not written 15 by scientists. For the multitude of 16 reasons the only conclusion we can come 17 to is that the ash-for-trash process 18 should immediately be suspended. 19 Van Buren citizens do not want the 20 landfill in their community used for 21 Onondaga ash. Well guess what, we don't 22 want it in the sole source aquifer 23 resource zone in our County. Up to two 24 million tons, if you go for 95,000 tons 25 for 20 years, two million tons of toxin 73 1 Jenkins 2 laden ash. Who is going to pay for the 3 liability for that? It's absolutely 4 insane that Cortland should be saddled 5 with that. We are working very hard to 6 be sure that OCRRA does not have the 7 option of using Cortland's landfill for 8 its ash. 9 I have in my hand a copy an e-mail 10 from Mike Connely, in which he states 11 that OCRRA does not have plans or desire 12 to develop the permitted landfill at 13 this time, because even without the 14 partnership with Cortland County there 15 is sufficient landfill capacity in the 16 state for reuse of the material as 17 alternative daily cover. And I can 18 submit this. 19 Also, so we ask you Onondaga 20 residents and Legislators to be 21 courageous and to join with Legislators 22 in Cortland County and Onondaga County 23 to suspend the ash-for-trash project and 24 support phasing out of the incinerator 25 as many communities around the country 74 1 Jenkins 2 are doing. 3 Can I keep talking a little bit 4 more? I'm the only, well there is only 5 one more person going to speak from 6 Cortland County. Okay. Well, I would 7 really like to say that when you 8 increase -- when you improve your 9 pollution control devices it puts the 10 pollution, more pollution into the 11 pollution control devices, and even 12 those are supposed to go into our 13 landfill. Those are the things that 14 become completely loaded with the 15 metals, the dioxins, the furans. And 16 that's completely absurd. 17 From the Agency for Toxic Substances 18 and Disease Registry, from the US 19 Department of Health, they say the best 20 way to prevent toxins, dioxins, is from 21 not producing them. And it concurs that 22 incinerator ash containing significant 23 amounts of dioxin should be basically 24 kept away from human exposure. 25 Prevention of such a legacy to 75 1 Jenkins 2 succeeding generations is a strong 3 reason for prevention of incineration. 4 That is from the CDC website, I can give 5 it all to you, make sure you have it in 6 your hand, I submitted it electronically 7 already. 8 Okay, so I guess one of the most 9 important things I have to say is, 10 absolutely demand that a Health Impact 11 Assessment is done per CDC guidelines, 12 because if you do you will find that you 13 probably should not allow that 14 incinerator to keep burning, because of 15 all the rates of diseases that are 16 expected to be generated by it. 17 So I thank you very much, and like I 18 said, I submitted 50 pages of comments. 19 I went through the DEIS page by page and 20 it's mostly glowing statements, so. Ask 21 scientists, okay? Thank you. 22 MR. KILMARTIN: Thank you, ma'am. 23 We have Dick Clarke next, followed by 24 Allison King, followed by Joe Esposito. 25 MAYOR DICK CLARKE: First of all, 76 1 Clarke 2 thank you for coming out and listening 3 to everybody's viewpoint. That's the 4 only way we get things done the right 5 way. Just a couple quick points. First 6 of all, as the Mayor of Baldwinsville 7 we're charged with trying to find ways 8 to share services with other communities, 9 with the two towns around us. And so 10 the plan that Cortland and Onondaga 11 County came up with follows that kind of 12 pattern. It makes good sense. 13 I don't live in Jamesville and I 14 don't live in Cortland. So you have a 15 real task in front of you to balance 16 what looks like a pretty good financial 17 plan with the safety of your residents 18 and the other County's residents. That's 19 a handful. And I will encourage you to 20 give it the utmost care and concern that 21 whatever you come up with works for 22 everybody. 23 And my last point is, I am here to 24 support Claude Sykes and the Town of Van 25 Buren in their fight to keep the 77 1 King 2 landfill out of the Town of Van Buren, 3 the fight that they've been putting on 4 for a couple decades. And just to know 5 that the village supports that fight. 6 Thank you again for your concerns. 7 MR. KILMARTIN: Allison King, 8 followed by Joe Esposito, followed by 9 Jennifer Peterson. 10 ALLISON KING: Good evening, as you 11 heard I'm Allison King, I'm a health 12 policy analyst, toxicologist, and a 13 small business owner. And I came up 14 here tonight with a neighbor of mine who 15 lives near the landfill in McGraw. So 16 came up from Cortland County. And she 17 and others for over a year now have been 18 urging me to oppose this ash-for-trash 19 deal. 20 And I said, look, I'm a scientist, I 21 have to wait and see the data. So I 22 dutifully submitted my questions a year 23 ago in our first scoping period and I 24 submitted my questions in June in our 25 second scoping period. And came here 78 1 King 2 and came to Cortland County to say the 3 significant very important questions 4 weren't addressed. The DEIS is not 5 adequate. Both County Legislatures 6 approved the DEIS as adequate. At this 7 point I oppose the ash-for-trash deal. 8 I'm sorry, I no longer have confidence 9 that these very serious questions will 10 be addressed before this deal moves 11 forward. 12 We hear in Cortland County, I read 13 my paper, 80 percent of the contract 14 negotiations are done. We are supposed 15 to be getting data. This is driven by 16 economics. And I appreciate that both 17 legislatures were trying to figure out 18 how to make those tax dollars go farther. 19 I'm a business person, yes, that's 20 really important. 21 So one of the critical parts of the 22 DEIS is the economic analysis. In 23 Cortland County we want to know, flow 24 control alone, what will that bring us? 25 $600,000 a year, that covers our debt. 79 1 King 2 What's in the DEIS? It's flow control 3 plus ash-for-trash. But it doesn't say 4 it's flow control. It just says 5 ash-for-trash with 35,000 tons of our 6 trash. That's flow control. What does 7 it bring us? $800,000. So all of this 8 stuff is for $200,000 a year difference, 9 and it doesn't account for one 10 and-a-half million to build a transfer 11 station, road repair, these other 12 ongoing costs. 13 So for me, I do economic modeling. 14 Our County didn't share the data, so I 15 did the modeling myself. They're public 16 data, our budgets are actually public 17 data. I trended them over time, trended 18 them forward. For me this is an emperor 19 has no clothes on moment. 20 Why are we talking about this? Why 21 are we paying for a DEIS and an FEIS, 22 when we can solve our budget problems 23 without your ash. We can finance our 24 landfill. And our goal, our goal is to 25 make that landfill last. The reason we 80 1 King 2 have trouble right now is because we 3 built two cells, we borrowed nine 4 million and it cost us 15 million to pay 5 it back. We still have got 11 million 6 to go. We want to make that landfill 7 last. How do we do that? The four Rs. 8 And I credit you for the great 9 recycling program you've got here. 10 Cortland County doesn't suddenly change 11 our whole approach to trash by just 12 shipping our trash north. We have to 13 change how we manage our trash, we need 14 to totally revamp. And when we look at 15 what's happening elsewhere, we heard 16 about Covanta and its awards. 17 Well, Covanta in New Jersey is an 18 owner of some of the incinerators in 19 Connecticut. The state of Connecticut 20 announced it's shutting down the 21 incinerators. Covanta is on record 22 saying they want to work with the state 23 of Connecticut. You can do that here. 24 Covanta would partner. You make a 25 decision to shut it down, move to the 81 1 King 2 four Rs, and so people in Cortland 3 County are worried about are tipping 4 fees going to go up? What's going to 5 happen? So what we see and read in 6 Connecticut we're going to lower tipping 7 fees because trash is money. There is 8 more money in recycling than there is in 9 incineration. 10 We heard from a young scientist that 11 incineration is actually not producing 12 energy and burning trash uses 3 to 4 13 times more energy than recycling those 14 same materials. So I talked some about 15 the economics. It just doesn't hold up 16 from the Cortland County perspective, 17 this doesn't hold up based on economics. 18 The other major concern -- I think 19 that alone should kill the project. The 20 other major concern is the science, the 21 health aspect. And this is my field, 22 this is sort of my life's work. It is a 23 tremendous concern that we are creating 24 some of the most hazardous chemicals 25 known, these dioxins and furans. We 82 1 King 2 know, you have to go from the DEIS to 3 the Health Department's report, you can 4 see the ash is tested, and the ash has 5 dioxin in it. What level? It's about 6 the same level that's known to be above 7 the threshold for danger, to hey, a 8 fella your size. 9 And for my neighbor who is a hauler, 10 she's going to be exposed to that, for 11 the people in Jamesville it's coming out 12 the stack. Now there has been 13 improvements, that's trapped, and those 14 chemicals would then be coming into 15 Cortland County. So one of the comments 16 that I made in the scoping period is 17 elsewhere in the world they fix this, 18 they put these dioxins in Germany and 19 Switzerland in fairly deep mines. 20 So what happens in Syracuse? You 21 take that fly ash and you mix it with 22 the bottom ash so it's dilute enough 23 that it passes standards and it can be 24 land-filled. Is that the best thing to 25 do? Is that the right thing to do? We 83 1 King 2 know dioxins are in the ash. We did ask 3 in the scoping for suitable tests of ash 4 in other landfills and what the impact 5 is on the surrounding area. We don't 6 have a Health Impact Assessment. What 7 we've got is leachate analysis. But 8 dioxin is fat soluble not water soluble. 9 So leachate analysis isn't going to help 10 us understand what the threat is for 11 dioxin. So that's an example of an 12 issue that hasn't been addressed yet but 13 what we see when we look to our federal 14 regulatory authorities is the best way 15 to not bring dioxin into the environment 16 is not to create it in the first place. 17 I want to shift a little bit here. 18 So I've been speaking, these comments 19 reflect a group of citizens in Cortland 20 County. We formed an Environmental 21 Advisory Board, which is an independent 22 citizens association with a range of 23 people, a range of backgrounds to 24 understand it. But actually the first 25 thing we did, you know, I'm kind of sick 84 1 King 2 of the NIMBY approach, not in my back 3 yard. 4 We're not helping our Legislators if 5 we just say this is bad and we don't 6 have an alternative. So before we came 7 up with our Just Say No statement, we 8 worked on solutions. And I appreciate 9 that, you know, and I've been hearing 10 tonight how folks here want to help 11 Cortland County. So we have solutions 12 and we can improve our own solid waste 13 management without bringing ash in and 14 enabling you supporting a decision to 15 phase out your incinerator. 16 The Environmental Advisory Board 17 supports environmentally and fiscally 18 responsible management of solid waste in 19 our County. This solution statement is 20 not only supported by the Citizens 21 Association, it's supported by the 22 League of Woman Voters of Cortland 23 County. The U.S. League of Woman Voters 24 has been working on solid waste issues 25 since the 1980s when actually the U.S. 85 1 King 2 League opposed incinerator. 3 The U.S. League supports policy to 4 reduce generation, and promote the reuse 5 and recycling of solid and hazardous 6 waste. So just briefly, top line here 7 on our solution: 8 1. Maximize longevity of our 9 current landfill, which is a financial 10 investment and a County asset. Ash-for- 11 trash would close it sooner, then what 12 do we do? So the four Rs: To reduce 13 landfill waste, avoid costly expansion, 14 we do not have a hydro geologically 15 suitable area, the till is not deep 16 enough for us to expand at that site. 17 And as we all know we want to avoid 18 siting a new landfill. That just 19 divides communities. 20 So our second goal is to finance 21 County solid waste services through 22 integrated sustainable methods. That's 23 not ash-for-trash. We can pay off our 24 debt and current cost through flow 25 control of moving forward with the four 86 1 King 2 Rs. Taking responsibility for the trash 3 that we generate. Setting tipping fees 4 to best serve our residents. And there 5 is optimism there that tipping fees can 6 actually go down with revenue from the 7 four Rs. And developing that into a 8 profitable operation. 9 And then lastly using our current 10 landfill more efficiently. We hear in 11 our County that some things are going 12 into the landfill that shouldn't be. We 13 don't fix that by shipping our trash 14 north. We fix that by properly managing 15 our current landfill. We can reduce the 16 amount that were covered so we're not 17 mining shale for cover, all kind of 18 things like that that we can do 19 independently of Onondaga County, though 20 we appreciate your willingness to 21 partner with us, and your time this 22 evening. Thank you. 23 MR. KILMARTIN: We have Jennifer 24 Peterson, followed by Brian -- hard to 25 pronounce, can't read the handwriting. 87 1 Esposito 2 Is it McAninch? 3 JOSEPH ESPOSITO: Hi, I'm Joe 4 Esposito. I live a mile and-a-half 5 downwind of the garbage burner. No one 6 on my street has cancer. I'm not a 7 scientist. But none of the no sayers, 8 none of them have an alternative. 9 Except a lot of talk. 10 On the OCRRA website and with the 11 New York DEC there is the statistics 12 that you can all read. One 50 gallon 13 drum burning in the back yard puts out 14 as much dioxin as that OCRRA does in a 15 year. Liberals lie to do the right 16 thing. And they can never accomplish 17 it. They only drive business out of New 18 York State, and manipulate children's 19 minds. 20 This is the only option we have in 21 the world to get rid of our trash other 22 than the landfill. We talk about 23 managing trash. We can't get people to 24 put good things in their body. Cancer 25 can come from what you got at Wegmans. 88 1 Esposito 2 This is the only sensible alternative in 3 the world right now. How we manage the 4 ash is important. But what's more 5 important is that you look at the facts. 6 The toxicity out of that pipe, I go 7 smell it, I go sit up there and read a 8 book. 9 PAM JENKINS: Go. 10 JOE ESPOSITO: No, you go, this is 11 Onondaga County. Take care of your own 12 trash. 13 PAM JENKINS: Take care of your own 14 ash. 15 MR. KILMARTIN: Folks why don't we 16 allow the speaker to speak. 17 JOE ESPOSITO: The fact is there is 18 no place on the face of the earth that 19 there is a management plan better than 20 turning that trash into energy that 21 benefits Onondaga County and all our 22 residents. They have no alternative. 23 Nothing. 24 You can't get everybody to go 25 through every single bag of garbage. 89 1 Esposito 2 But that's what they would have you do. 3 You can give liberals everything you 4 want and they want in the whole world 5 and they would still complain. And 6 that's all I've heard is talk, and 7 that's all it is. Because the facts are 8 the facts and they're right on the New 9 York State DEC website and the federal 10 environmental websites. And you can 11 look at them and read them and digest 12 them. And they're the truth. And I 13 trust the New York State DEC, it's about 14 the most progressive state we have. And 15 it's wrong for people to stand up here, 16 and I don't think that they understand 17 the inconsequential, if we aren't able 18 to get rid of our trash we have to stick 19 it in the ground, and that's the only 20 alternative. Thank you. 21 MR. KILMARTIN: Next we have 22 Jennifer Peterson, followed by Brian 23 McAninch, followed by Tom Bouvia. 24 JENNIFER PETERSON: Good evening. I 25 too am also a life long resident of 90 1 Peterson 2 Onondaga County. And I currently live 3 in the Southwood area, which is roughly 4 about two miles from the Covanta Energy 5 plant. I have lived there at my home 6 for over 15 years, and I represent the 7 average American household in Onondaga 8 County. Myself, my husband and my four 9 year old son and my two year old 10 daughter. We produce a typical amount 11 of trash each week. 12 I am also a business owner who runs 13 a commercial janitorial service for 14 Onondaga County businesses, so I see 15 firsthand not only typical households 16 but I also see what the businesses 17 produce in Onondaga County. 18 I work with a main trash collector 19 and I also work with one of the main 20 metal collectors, and I also work with 21 Covanta Energy. I see firsthand just 22 what everybody produces. It's a lot. 23 It's a lot more than people realize. 24 And I understand a lot of people 25 have issues, as far as environmentally 91 1 Peterson 2 how it affects our community. As a 3 Jamesville resident I absolutely 4 understand. Because I'm concerned. But 5 I know firsthand want goes on behind 6 Covanta Energy. I see what they do. I 7 see how they handle themselves, and I 8 see what happens and how much trash is 9 collected. I don't want it buried 10 somewhere. 11 I am open to many ideas and 12 suggestions that have been brought to 13 the room this evening. But I know it's 14 a lot. And I know it needs to be taken 15 care of. And I know that people are 16 doing things to try to help reduce and 17 recycle. But it's not enough. We need 18 to do more. And it's not just up to 19 Covanta's responsibility to take care of 20 it, it's all of our responsibility to 21 take care of it. 22 So just I want to end with this, 23 that again, I think was also stated, one 24 barrel or a fire pit, which is very 25 common, you produce, when burned with 92 1 Peterson/McAninch 2 trash or leaves or whatever is burned 3 within the area of the fire pit, one 4 burned barrel produces the same amount 5 of emissions as Covanta does in one 6 year. And that is a fact. I do care 7 about the environment as a parent, 8 homeowner and a business owner. I have 9 two children that rely on me to do that. 10 So thank you. 11 MR. KILMARTIN: Thank you, Jen. We 12 have Brian McAninch, Tom Bouvia and Mike 13 Rigney. 14 BRIAN McANINCH: Thank you, very much. 15 My name is Brian McAninch, I'm a 16 professor at Onondaga Community College 17 and I'm actually coordinator for the 18 environmental tech program there. The 19 environmental tech program at OCC 20 actually utilizes all your waste 21 facilities in Onondaga County as part of 22 our training. We utilize Metro, we 23 utilize the Rock Cut Road facility 24 incinerator, and we also utilize the 25 composting recycling program as part of 93 1 Peterson/McAninch 2 our training. And we find them to be an 3 excellent program and one of the best in 4 New York State and a very good example 5 around the United States. 6 The recycling rate, which is about 7 65 percent, represents truly one of the 8 highest recycling rates in New York 9 State, and actually one of best in the 10 nation in comparison to except for maybe 11 California, which has mandatory 12 recycling rates. 13 I know everyone here has been 14 talking about recycling. I don't think 15 you guys realize just how exemplary 16 Onondaga County is in terms of recycling 17 and composting. And I know you guys 18 want to push that and make that more, 19 and God knows I support that, but you 20 guys don't realize how much you guys do. 21 And a lot of that is actually due to the 22 funding through OCRRA, due to the 23 incinerator in part that you guys 24 reinvest in your community in terms of 25 recycling and training children in terms 94 1 Bouvia 2 of recycling, and maybe that's why 3 everyone is conscious of it. 4 But the actual programs you have in 5 Onondaga County are actually exemplary, 6 they should be actually repeated in 7 other counties. And expanding into 8 Cortland County is really a beneficial 9 type of use of what you already do here. 10 So as a citizen I would just support 11 what you guys are proposing. Thank you, 12 very much. 13 MR. KILMARTIN: Thank you, sir. We 14 have Mr. Bouvia next followed by 15 Mr. Rigney and Don Hughes. 16 DEPUTY CHIEF TOM BOUVIA: As a 17 Deputy Chief of the Southwood Fire 18 Department I have chosen to come before 19 the board to speak on behalf of Covanta, 20 their safety record and their community 21 outreach program. 22 Covanta is within the fire 23 protection boundary of the Southwood 24 Fire Department, and I can tell you 25 firsthand of their impeccable safety 95 1 Bouvia 2 record. We meet at least semi-annually 3 to review any changes to their internal 4 protocols and our expectations as the 5 first arriving fire department. The 6 Covanta management staff are always open 7 to discuss their SOPs and how to work 8 them in a most efficient manner. In the 9 event of any emergency within the 10 Covanta property a shift supervisor or 11 designee will always meet us at the 12 front of the plant and give us a quick 13 briefing of what's going on and lead us 14 right to wherever the issue is. So 15 there is always somebody there, you 16 know, they have an outstanding safety 17 record with us. 18 I believe it's important to point 19 out their safety record and procedures 20 in the event of an emergency as it 21 correlates with the OCRRA compliance to 22 the DEC. 23 The other great thing about Covanta 24 is that they're willing to support 25 community programs, whether it's the 96 1 Rigney 2 Southwood Fire Department, the various 3 schools or the Boy Scouts. Covanta is 4 generous with their support and always 5 willing to entertain groups interested 6 in learning more about their processes 7 and providing tours. 8 Covanta is a superior operator of 9 the facility for the past 20 years. It 10 has operated the facility since it was 11 constructed in 1995. I see no reason 12 not to support this proposal, especially 13 considering Covanta's currently 14 operating at a level far less than their 15 permit allows. Thank you. 16 MR. KILMARTIN: Thank you, sir. We 17 have Mr. Rigney followed by Mr. Hughes, 18 followed by Michael Wolfson. 19 MIKE RIGNEY: Good evening. Thanks 20 for spending your evening tonight 21 letting us speak to you. My name is 22 Mike Rigney, I live in Dewitt and I've 23 been a resident of Onondaga County for 24 the last 20 or so years. I want to kind 25 of reiterate a couple points that have 97 1 Rigney 2 been made quite a bit already tonight. 3 First off though I want to say that 4 I am opposed to the incinerator and I 5 think it should be decommissioned in the 6 coming years. There are alternatives 7 out there. We can do better. There 8 are, as one person indicated, there was 9 a speaker recently who gave concrete 10 examples of what we can do. I understand 11 that's hard. The ash-for-trash is the 12 easy solution. 13 And you as County Legislators really 14 need to kind of dig down deep and go for 15 the not easy solution. So I urge you to 16 look at other alternatives. Let's push 17 our 65 percent recycle rate up to 75, 18 85, 95 or more percent. We should deal 19 with our own trash as any community 20 should deal with their own trash. And 21 we should do it in the most sustainable 22 way that we can. 23 I also would recommend a book called 24 Sustainability By Design. I believe the 25 author is John Ehrenfeld. It really 98 1 Hughes 2 talks about how to go from first, kind 3 of principles, and solve your solid 4 waste -- our solid waste issues. Again, 5 I understand this is going to be hard, 6 but I hope you take the road less 7 traveled. Thank you. 8 MR. KILMARTIN: Next we have 9 Mr. Hughes, followed by Michael Wolfson. 10 DON HUGHES: Thank you for enduring 11 and your patience, and the opportunity 12 to speak. I addressed you folks, some 13 of you at the Legislature meeting in the 14 fall. So first I want to read the 15 statement from Mark Donnelly, the 16 executive Director of OCRRA regarding 17 Site 31. 18 "OCRRA does not have plans or desire 19 to develop a permitted landfill at this 20 time, because even without the potential 21 partnership with Cortland County there 22 is sufficient landfill capacity in the 23 state for reuse of the material," that 24 being the ash, "as an alternative daily 25 cover." So OCRRA does not intend to 99 1 Hughes 2 develop Site 31. If they ever do, I'll 3 come back and help you fight it. My 4 word. 5 I'm a professional engineer, 6 environmental expert, Ph.D. in 7 environmental chemistry. This Plan, 8 this ash-for-trash deal is a travesty. 9 There is no justification, as Ms. King 10 from Cortland so eloquently pointed out, 11 the economics are tenuous at best for 12 Cortland and they are extremely poor for 13 Onondaga County as well. Incineration 14 is the most expensive way to get rid of 15 trash. 16 Let me recite some numbers here. 17 Average tip fee for recycling. Well, 18 the average tip fee for the recycling is 19 about zero. Because you get paid. The 20 composting, it can be $44 a ton, that's 21 about what OCRRA is spending. There is 22 a local composter who does it for about 23 $5.00 a ton. Average tip fee for a 24 landfill nationally $61. You can 25 landfill for about 35 here. Average tip 100 1 Hughes 2 fee for an incinerator, 92. 3 If we follow through with this 4 agreement, if the Legislature allows 5 Cortland to ship its trash here and soon 6 to be followed by other communities, I 7 guarantee, because we'll need to fill 8 the capacity, we will be chaining 9 ourselves to this thing for another 20 10 years and we will be paying some of the 11 highest tipping fees of anywhere in 12 Upstate New York. Don't do it. Just 13 for that reason alone, cost. This is 14 very expensive. 15 We have far greater opportunities to 16 reduce our costs by reducing our waste 17 first, by increasing composting, by 18 capturing more of the recyclables, by 19 developing markets, specialty markets 20 such as Neil Seliman talked about 21 bringing in manufacturing, 22 remanufacturers who will take old 23 mattresses, deconstruct them and turn 24 them into new ones, just an example. 25 And they'll be happy to set up shop 101 1 Hughes 2 here. 3 One issue I wanted to highlight that 4 other people have not talked about, been 5 a lot of discussion of health. But 6 transport of ash, what we're looking at 7 in terms of trucks on the road, 24 up 8 to. Well, the Plan says 12 to 24 trucks 9 per day would be traversing Interstate 10 81. So bringing trash down 40 miles and 11 bringing ash up 40 miles. That's the 12 increase in truck traffic, increase in 13 fumes, increase in air pollution, and 14 God forbid there is an accident. And 15 you know what that road is like during 16 the winter. I used to commute to 17 Cortland and there were many many truck 18 accidents. That in itself was reason to 19 give pause. 20 The EIS is flawed, highly flawed 21 because it doesn't look at the whole 22 picture. It says, let me get the right 23 page here, the Onondaga County waste-to- 24 energy facility has previously undergone 25 a full environmental review prior to the 102 1 Hughes 2 permitting construction and operation of 3 the facility. This lengthy process 4 began with the issuance of a Draft 5 Environmental Impact Statement in 6 February of 1981, when they were 7 considering 1,400 tons per day. And it 8 was then supplemented in 1988 with the 9 construction and operation of the 10 current facility. 1988 is a while back. 11 The EIS goes on to say, well, the 12 following topics were satisfactorily 13 addressed and this prior process will 14 not be reconsidered, because we won't be 15 processing more than the current 16 permitted capacity. And it goes through 17 a whole laundry list of stuff, including 18 traffic, land use, zoning, community 19 services, health and safety, noise, 20 economics, odors, energy. Well I don't 21 have to tell you that a few things have 22 changed since 1988. That was when we 23 were using floppy discs. So I urge you 24 to reject this deal. 25 Bottom line is we need to take a 103 1 Wolfson 2 comprehensive look at solid waste. Step 3 back, let's do a real Solid Waste 4 Management Plan, a supplemental one, a 5 real one that really looks at all the 6 issues. Thank you. 7 MR. KILMARTIN: Thank you. Our 8 final speaker for the night, Michael 9 Wolfson. 10 DR. MICHAEL WOLFSON: Good evening. 11 I'm Dr. Michael Wolfson, I'm a 12 physician, a medical doctor and a 13 scientist. My training was here at 14 Upstate. And following that I finished 15 a fellowship at Harvard in occupational 16 medicine. That's been my primary 17 practice for the last 20 years. 18 Now, everyone is entitled to his or 19 her opinions, but not everyone is 20 entitled to his or her own facts. And 21 as Don just pointed out the last review 22 Health Risk Assessment was done based on 23 data that's almost 30 years old. That 24 data is absolutely worthless at this 25 point in time. As I pointed out I'm 104 1 Wolfson 2 going to supplement some of the comments 3 I made in November and at multiple prior 4 meetings that have gone on for the last 5 15 or 20 years and add a few new things 6 that I think people should hear. 7 This is a cancer factory. That's 8 what this incinerator is. When the 9 original Health Risk Assessment was 10 completed in the early '90s, before I 11 returned to Syracuse, which was where I 12 grew up, in 1992, prior to that the 13 Health Risk Assessment that was done, 14 and it was paid for by the, I believe 15 the incinerator operator if I'm not 16 incorrect, that's what I recall. The 17 Health Risk Assessment determined that 18 9.9 people per million would die of 19 cancer. That's excess cancers -- I'm 20 sorry, not die, would develop cancer, 21 excess cancers per million population. 22 So in Onondaga County that would be 5, 23 approximately 5 per year extra cancers 24 based on the emissions from the 25 incinerator. I'm not certain, I'd have 105 1 Wolfson 2 to go back to a 30 year old document to 3 see whether it even considered the other 4 issues, which are the fact that your 5 soil, for those of you downwind of the 6 incinerator as being contaminated, which 7 means that according to EPA standards at 8 least a quarter, 25 percent of the 9 carcinogens that are put out by the 10 incinerator and found in the soil, and 11 you can find the test results on the 12 Onondaga County Health Department 13 website. At least a quarter of those 14 cancer-causing agents are in your house. 15 In your household dust, where your 16 children crawl around on the floor, 17 where they engage in hand-to-mouth 18 activity putting their toys in their 19 mouths. And as adults you actually 20 ingest about half the amount of dirt and 21 dust in your house and around your house 22 that your children do. So any of you 23 who are downwind, any of you who are 24 downwind in any direction from the 25 incinerator it's primarily the 106 1 Wolfson 2 Jamesville area or the 13078 zip code. 3 You're all exposed to those cancer- 4 causing agents that come from the 5 incinerator. 6 So what are they? Dioxins, that's 7 considered to be the most toxic 8 substance that's produced by human 9 activity. Dibenzofurans, PCBs and 10 dioxin-like PCB, arsenic, cadmium, lead 11 which is now considered a cancer-causing 12 agent, which it wasn't at the time that 13 the original Health Risk Assessment was 14 done. Cadmium, and there are others. 15 So the bottom line is that it was 16 expected that there would be almost 10 17 extra cancers per million in 1994 when 18 the incinerator opened. 19 Now interestingly, if the DEC had 20 numbers from this consultant that said 21 there would be 10 extra cancers per 22 million, and the old number that THE EPA 23 used to use for an acceptable risk was 24 one extra cancer per million population. 25 So that means one person, one family 107 1 Wolfson 2 would have to suffer through that. 3 But the consultant said, no there 4 are going to be 9.9. It's a convenient 5 number because if it had been 10 the 6 permit would not have been allowed. The 7 DEC would have been required by law not 8 the permit the incinerator. What we 9 know now is that dioxins are at least a 10 thousand times more toxic than they were 11 considered to be at the time of the 12 original Health Risk Assessment. 13 And yet I've been submitting 14 documents to the DEC, to the County 15 Health Department, the state Health 16 Department for over 15 years, all of 17 which have been ignored, including the 18 most recent ones for the scoping period 19 here, I have not received one response. 20 And each time that the DEC has 21 repermitted this incinerator, it has 22 ignored, as has the state Health 23 Department, it has ignored the medical 24 and scientific information that I 25 provided, indicating that at the very 108 1 Wolfson 2 least what's needed is a new Health Risk 3 Assessment. And the Legislature must 4 take the responsibility to demand that a 5 new Health Risk Assessment be done. 6 When this incinerator was originally 7 proposed the Legislature at that time 8 guaranteed, made an iron clad guarantee 9 that there would be no importation of 10 trash from anywhere. When the DEC and 11 the incinerator and OCRRA tried to pull 12 a fast one on us and wanted a temporary 13 permit to burn tires about 15 years ago, 14 5 to 10 times as many people than are in 15 this meeting showed up in Jamesville. 16 And 99 out of a hundred of those people, 17 including myself, spoke against it. 18 Interestingly they pulled the permit 19 request a week later. 20 Now, what it's going to take is for 21 the populations of Cortland and Onondaga 22 County to make it clear to this 23 Legislature and to the Legislature in 24 Cortland County that this is an 25 unacceptable means of getting rid of 109 1 Wolfson 2 trash. You should know that none of 3 these cancer-causing agents are present 4 in trash that's being land-filled, with 5 a few minor exceptions. That people 6 throw a battery with lead in it into 7 their trash and it gets missed, yes, 8 that would be in a landfill. But none 9 of the things, none of the cancer- 10 causing agents that are found downwind 11 of this incinerator. And you can look 12 online and you can find this, go to the 13 library, use your own computer, you can 14 find the levels. In multiple instances 15 they exceed what is the EPA acceptable 16 level for these cancer-causing agents in 17 soil. 18 And of course the County Health 19 Department has declined now to test 20 other things. They won't test water, 21 they won't test food. They won't test 22 vegetation. So they have basically cut 23 back on the off-site monitoring program 24 to where we only know soil levels. The 25 soil levels alone are dangerous. 110 1 Wolfson 2 The bottom line is that this 3 incinerator takes in, and this is a lie 4 that has been on TV, in ads, in my 5 opinion it's a straight out lie. And if 6 OCRRA were governed by FCC regulations 7 they would be responsible for possibly 8 civil and criminal penalties. Their ads 9 on TV say, we're taking 325,000 tons of 10 trash and we're getting rid of it, we're 11 taking it out of the waste stream. 12 Well, even the head of OCRRA 13 admitted to me in a November meeting or 14 an October meeting, when the board 15 limited our comments to a couple 16 minutes, to three minutes, admitted 17 directly that at least 25 percent of 18 what's burned in that incinerator comes 19 out as ash. Now that ash is not 20 non-toxic as the total incorrect article 21 in the Post Standard states today. That 22 is hazardous waste. 23 Hazardous waste is defined by the 24 federal government, by the EPA, even the 25 EPA, which has colluded with, as far as 111 1 Wolfson 2 I'm concerned, the DEC and the state 3 Health Department to basically cover 4 this stuff up. Because they knew about 5 our comments. They knew about the 6 medical risks, they knew about the lack 7 of a modern Health Risk Assessment 8 beyond 1980s. And yet they've done 9 nothing. 10 Now the EPA says that you can't 11 landfill ash if it's hazardous waste. 12 And what's the definition? Any ash that 13 contains dioxins is hazardous waste. 14 Any ash that contains any cancer-causing 15 agent is hazardous waste. When what's 16 called the TCLP, you don't need to know 17 to details, but it's called Toxic 18 Characteristic Leaching Procedure, which 19 is a sham test that's done on the ash to 20 determine supposedly that it's not 21 hazardous. When that ash is put in a 22 column, and waters run through it to 23 determine what comes out the other end. 24 The EPA says you have to test for 39 25 constituents. If any of the 39 exceed 112 1 Wolfson 2 the EPA standard, it's hazardous waste. 3 If you know that what's in that ash has 4 a carcinogen in it, it's hazardous waste. 5 So you've got in your newspapers, I 6 believe I received it in my newspaper 7 recently, an OCRRA publication that said 8 we did a TCLP test, we got cadmium and 9 lead, and it's within the acceptable 10 levels set by the EPA. Well, that's not 11 possible. Because cadmium and lead are 12 carcinogens. And if you get a cancer- 13 causing agent or carcinogen in your TCLP 14 test, it's hazardous waste. 15 Now I'm not an attorney but I've 16 looked at the 337 page law that governs 17 this, among others, the 2008 and 2012 18 versions, and we've been land-filling 19 hazardous waste in Seneca Meadows and 20 wherever else they're dumping the ash 21 now, since the incinerator opened. 22 Now, whether or not some agency has 23 improperly given a pass to OCRRA and the 24 incinerator to dump this hazardous waste 25 in an unregulated landfill is beyond my 113 1 Wolfson 2 knowledge at this point. I will find 3 out. The bottom line is, this ash is 4 hazardous waste. And it shouldn't be 5 dumped in Cortland, it shouldn't be 6 dumped in Seneca Meadows. We should 7 shut this incinerator down. 8 The DEC and the Health Department 9 have been afraid to answer my questions, 10 my medical and scientific criticisms 11 each time this has come up for a permit. 12 The permit for this incinerator is 13 supposed to be renewed every five years. 14 Opened in 1994, should have been 15 repermitted in '99, 2004, 2009, and then 16 this would be the fourth repermit. It's 17 been repermitted twice. Because our 18 comments, as far as I'm concerned, in my 19 opinion, frighten them and they couldn't 20 answer them. So they just let the 21 incinerator operate without an updated 22 permit for four years on two different 23 occasions. 24 Bottom line is I disagree with the 25 previous, one of the previous speakers, 114 1 Wolfson 2 and in my opinion you can't trust the 3 DEC. You can't trust the County Health 4 Department. You can't trust the state 5 Health Department. 6 When we found that the County Health 7 Department was, in my opinion, 8 falsifying data from the off-site 9 monitoring program, we confronted the 10 Health Commissioner, the local head of 11 the DEC, the New York State Albany head 12 of the Toxics Bureau of the Department 13 of Health, several other people from the 14 DEC and the Department of Health in 15 Albany in the Health Commissioner's 16 office in Syracuse. And there were 17 several people in this room were at that 18 meeting. 19 When I told them that they had been 20 sending improper information to the 21 state Department of Health, that the 22 testing for the first six years was 23 improper, there were no answers. They 24 basically stonewalled. They said 25 nothing, they did nothing. They knew 115 1 Wolfson 2 that they had been violating regulations 3 but they did nothing. 4 The bottom line is that this has 5 been a sham since the beginning. This 6 facility is a cancer factory. We have 7 data now that shows increased levels of 8 breast cancer downwind from the 9 incinerator. I would say that in my 10 opinion, without having even further 11 documentation, it's highly likely that 12 at least some of those increased cases 13 of breast cancer are due to the 14 incinerator emissions. 15 Now, we're also talking about other 16 types of cancers, prostate cancer, 17 possibly thyroid cancer is clearly, you 18 can go online if any of you are 19 interested in looking at Vietnam 20 veterans and Agent Orange, the 21 publication comes out every two years in 22 the National Academy of Sciences. 23 Even that document, which is 24 extremely conservative, and is usually 25 10 or 15 years behind the medical 116 1 Wolfson 2 literature says, multiple types of 3 leukemias, lymphomas, soft tissue 4 sarcomas, poor acne, diabetes, and now 5 thyroid disease. And I believe there is 6 literature out there that shows that 7 thyroid cancer is also one of the 8 results of exposure. 9 So we're talking about a cancer 10 factory. This should be shut down. If 11 anybody had the guts to do a new Health 12 Risk Assessment, which was not done in 13 the new Draft Environmental Statement, 14 it was not done, and you certainly can't 15 rely on data from 30 years ago. It 16 would be a joke if it weren't so 17 pathetic. The bottom line is a new 18 Health Risk Assessment has to be done, 19 has to be done by an independent group 20 that has no relationship to the 21 operators of the incinerator, to OCRRA 22 or even to the Legislature. Has to be 23 an independent group that does a new 24 Health Risk Assessment. 25 And I am of the belief if a new 117 1 Wolfson 2 Health Risk Assessment would be done 3 this incinerator would have to be shut 4 down as soon as those results were 5 found. We would have to decommission 6 the incinerator. There is no safe way 7 to run this facility. And I suggest 8 that you go and you look at this 9 literature for yourself. You don't have 10 to be a doctor, an M.D. or a scientist 11 to understand the dangers here. You 12 don't have to have a fellowship from 13 Harvard as I do, you don't have to have 14 taught at Brown, Yale and Upstate, you 15 don't have to have done any of that. 16 All you have to do is read the 17 information for yourself and decide 18 whether you want to have a cancer 19 factory in our County that is endangering 20 the health and the environment, public 21 health and the environment. 22 So again, I thank you for the extra 23 time. I hope you'll do the right thing. 24 MR. KILMARTIN: One last speaker, 25 Michael Knowlton. 118 1 Knowlton 2 CHIEF MICHAEL KNOWLTON: Good 3 evening, ladies and gentlemen, my name 4 is Mike Knowlton, Chief of the Warners 5 Fire Department and the Warners Fire 6 District. I'm hearing everybody talk 7 about the hazards that are out there 8 about the toxins and stuff like that. 9 You have to understand I don't know much 10 about this at all. I didn't come 11 prepared to talk. But as the hearing is 12 going on I think the hazard is out 13 there. Me, being the Fire Chief and as 14 the Second Chief here understands, I 15 have a lot of problems out there. 16 I myself in the Warners Fire 17 District am responsible for the people 18 in my district, and the people that pass 19 through my district every day. Has 20 anybody been out to OCCRA -- or out to 21 the Site 31? Ever been on Brickyard 22 Road before? That road was redone a few 23 years back, and before there was S turns 24 and 90 degree turns. It was terrible. 25 It's not much bitter now. 119 1 Knowlton 2 If you start getting traffic off 3 690, go down Brickyard Road, you've got 4 a lot of curves, knolls, hills. I have 5 people every day, hundreds of cars, 6 going out of town, going in towards the 7 city to work. I have Sysco Foods that 8 has tractor trailers, every day, back 9 and forth. I have TED Park, which is 10 the oil city up there. They travel 11 every day back and forth on those roads. 12 Now we're going to add a few more 13 vehicles, 12 to 25 I think he said, 14 maybe more on top of that. It creates a 15 hazard for the fire department. I also 16 have going through my district, the 17 Warners service area is right there, 18 right below that area. I also have the 19 New York State Thruway, which is right 20 below that area. I also have a mulch 21 company right there in the same area as 22 that. In the summertime you're hauling 23 dirt and stuff out of there. That's a 24 disaster. 25 The mountain of trash, you have 120 1 Knowlton 2 trucks, they pull out with their 3 tractors and trucks it's a big dust mob 4 and mud and dirt and stuff like that. 5 My concern and although probably toxins 6 and stuff in the area that people have, 7 thank God there is not a lot of houses 8 in that area right directly there. 9 But I get many people traveling back 10 and forth. And in the wintertime it's 11 like a busy city out there. For a small 12 department, which don't have a lot of 13 members, like most departments have 14 now-a-days, we have to make do to make 15 it happen. What's it going to cost if 16 something goes in up there. It's going 17 to cost the taxpayers if Mike Knowlton, 18 the chief of the fire department needs 19 more equipment, specialized equipment to 20 protect those people that work up there. 21 I don't know what's going to be up there 22 first of all. I don't know what kind of 23 equipment you have up there. 24 But all I know if you get tractor 25 trailers coming out of there they'll 121 1 Knowlton 2 have diesel fuel in them, gallons, cars 3 coming down in the middle of winter and 4 pass each other it's going to be a big 5 disaster. And we certainly don't need 6 that there in Warners. Bad enough to 7 have the traffic that goes there now. 8 Add a few more trucks it's going to make 9 it even worse. That doesn't count all 10 the propane trucks that go through there 11 and bringing oil trucks that go through 12 there delivering their stuff to houses. 13 That's all I had to say tonight, 14 appreciate your time. Thank you. 15 MR. KILMARTIN: Thank you, sir, and 16 thank you to everyone for coming out 17 tonight. Your comments are greatly 18 appreciated, all your comments, and your 19 time. We thank everyone for being here 20 tonight, and the discussion will 21 certainly continue over the weeks and 22 months ahead. Thank you, folks. At 23 this time I call the public hearing to 24 closure. Have a good night everyone. 25 [Conclusion of Public Hearing]. 122 1 2 * * * * 3 C E R T I F I C A T E 4 This is to certify that I am a 5 Certified Shorthand Reporter and Notary 6 Public in and for the State of New York, 7 that I attended and reported the above 8 entitled proceedings, that I have 9 compared the foregoing with my original 10 minutes taken therein and that it is a 11 true and correct transcript thereof and 12 all of the proceedings had therein. 13 14 _______________________ 15 John F. Drury, CSR 16 17 Dated: January 9, 2015 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25