1 1 2 STATE OF NEW YORK : COUNTY LEGISLATURE 3 COUNTY OF ONONDAGA 4 ------------------------------------------- In the Matter of. 5 Re: PROPOSED 2015 Budget 6 ------------------------------------------- 7 PUBLIC HEARING in the above matter, conducted 8 at the Onondaga County Legislative Chambers, 401 Montgomery Street, Syracuse, New York before, 9 JOHN F. DRURY, CSR, RPR, Notary Public in and for the State of New York, on October 9, 2014, 7 pm. 10 LEGISLATORS PRESENT: 11 DISTRICT 12 1st BRIAN F. MAY 13 2nd JOHN C. DOUGHERTY 3rd JIM CORL 14 4th JUDITH A. TASSONE 5th KATHLEEN A. RAPP 15 6th MICHAEL E. PLOCHOCKI 16 7th DANNY J. LIEDKA 8th CHRISTOPHER J. RYAN 17 9th PEGGY CHASE 10th KEVIN A. HOLMQUIST 18 11th PATRICK M. KILMARTIN 19 12th DAVID H. KNAPP, Chairman Ways & Means 13th DEREK T. SHEPARD, JR. 20 14th CASEY E. JORDAN 15th J. RYAN McMAHON, Chairman of Legislature 21 16th MONICA WILLIAMS 22 DEBORAH L. MATURO, Clerk, Legislature KATHERINE FRENCH, Deputy Clerk 23 24 Reported By: John F. Drury, CSR, RPR 25 Court Reporter 471-7397 2 1 2 INDEX TO SPEAKERS 3 SPEAKERS PAGES 4 JAMES BALENO 6 & 79 DAVE APPLETON 14 5 RAY HART 16 6 JOSHUA GARDNER Bully Bred Rescue 22 7 EARL MOFFETT Villaboso Rescue Cntr 25 8 STEFANIE HIGGINS Cuse Pit Crew 27 9 DAVID STURGIS Dog Daze Pet Store 30 10 SHERRY RELYEA DEC Wildlife Rehabilitator 32 11 CAITLIN SIMMONS Cuse Pit Crew 35 12 KRISTEN CONTRERAS Cuse Pit Crew Support 37 13 KIM STRONG Laneys Army Utica 38 14 ROBIN MARTINO Cuse Pit Crew 42 15 JAN MARKARIAN Cuse Pit Crew 44 16 ALESHA BROWN Cuse Pit Crew 48 17 18 JASON ZEIGLER Attorney, Asgnd Counsel 50 19 IRENE AURORA FLORES Attorney Asgnd Cnsl 57 20 MARC STORNELLI Attorney, Asgnd Counsel 61 21 ARLEEN FORDOCK Senior Citizen issues 64 22 JEFF PARRY Attorney Asgnd Counsel 67 23 JENNIFER ROSENBERG Attorny Asgnd Counsel 71 24 GARRAN MURPHY-BABSON Dogs/Cuse Pit Crew 75 25 JOSE CONTRERAS Cuse Pit Crew 77 3 1 Chairman Knapp 2 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Legislators can 3 take their seats, we'll get the public 4 hearing started. I would like to 5 welcome everyone to our public hearing 6 for our proposed 2015 budget. Just a 7 few administrative things before we get 8 started. Obviously we have a full 9 house, so please note the emergency 10 exits just in case. And also if 11 everyone can make sure their cell phones 12 are silent we would appreciate that just 13 to make sure there is no interruptions. 14 Legislators, if you care to comment, 15 please make sure that you use your 16 microphones. And when we have speakers 17 come up we'll ask the speaker to come up 18 to the podium here and speak into the 19 microphone so that we can make sure we 20 get all the comments on the record. 21 Also if you are making comments tonight, 22 if you have a prepared statement, a 23 written statement if you would like to 24 leave it with the Clerk, Debbie Maturo, 25 that would be great, so we can have that 4 1 Chairman Knapp 2 for the permanent record as well. 3 For your information, I would like 4 to welcome the friends from Animal 5 Planet are here, great to have you. 6 They are going to be filming the entire 7 proceeding tonight, so again I know 8 there are signs posted around but 9 they're going to be recording the whole 10 event. So if you're not comfortable 11 with that, then for your information. 12 So just a few other things. Number 13 1, we've been working on this budget 14 since early September, over 1.2 billion 15 dollars budget in total for Onondaga 16 County. So we talked about this a lot 17 amongst ourselves obviously, and to some 18 of our constituents. But now we have 19 this public hearing to give you the 20 opportunity to talk to us. So it's not 21 a debate. We do give legislators a 22 chance to speak if they want to make any 23 comments before or at the end. But 24 again, this is an opportunity to hear 25 from you. And again not a debate, so 5 1 Chairman Knapp 2 just for clarification so we know what 3 the expectations are. 4 We do have quite a few folks signed 5 up to speak tonight so we ask you keep 6 your comments to three or four minutes 7 so we can make sure we get everybody in 8 who wants to speak. And again, if 9 things start to get really repetitive I 10 would appreciate it if you try to cover 11 some new ground, if possible. Also 12 everyone needs to be signed in who wants 13 to speak. So if you would like to 14 speak, even during the meeting if you 15 decide that you want to add a comment, 16 please just come forward over to the 17 desk, the sign in desk, where they'll 18 give you a card to sign in. So again 19 we'll have you on the record and we'll 20 make sure we get you to speak. 21 With that, those are my comments. 22 Before we get started would any 23 Legislator like to make a comment? 24 Being none, I declare the comment period 25 will begin now. And the way it works is 6 1 Baleno 2 I have the cards that you filled out, so 3 please forgive me if I have a little 4 trouble with handwriting and I 5 mispronounce a name. Again, nothing on 6 purpose but appreciate the thought. 7 So we will start out with James 8 Baleno. And just before you start 9 James, nice way to do it just to keep 10 things moving along, when I announce the 11 next speaker I will say who's on deck, 12 who's up next so they can be ready to 13 go. So next after Mr. Baleno is David 14 Appleton. 15 JAMES BALENO: Thank you, very much. 16 Thank you everybody for having this 17 public hearing this evening, I know this 18 is a regular thing and I apologize for 19 this being the first time I've been here. 20 And I would like to say to the crowd 21 back there, I'd like to see more people 22 come. I was here Tuesday for the 23 regular monthly meeting and you could 24 have shot a canon off in here and it 25 wouldn't hit anybody, it was kind of sad. 7 1 Baleno 2 That being said let's get on to 3 business. First of all, I have several 4 items to comment on. First one being 5 decrease in, apparently decrease in 6 funding for Hiscock Legal Aid. This 7 does not affect me directly at the 8 moment, however with the economy the way 9 it is, I know everybody is talking about 10 how it's up-trending, but really we're 11 not seeing it yet. It's not where it 12 needs to be. I think this is a vital 13 resource that our community does still 14 need. So people that can't go out and 15 get their own lawyer can still get a 16 legitimate defense if they're accused of 17 something. 18 And obviously the big one that there 19 is a lot of people here for tonight is 20 the shelter at Jamesville prison. 21 Simply put, if you look at the numbers, 22 it's a long term savings, not a short 23 term savings if we actually go through 24 with this. As an animal owner myself 25 and anybody that knows me knows my dogs 8 1 Baleno 2 are my family. This is something that 3 will help this County in the long run. 4 I mean don't be shortsighted on this, 5 please. 6 Our average costs for the best I 7 could look up, because there is not a 8 lot of numbers out there I could find, 9 about 60,000 a year it costs us for an 10 inmate at Jamesville. If I'm wrong 11 please feel free to correct me. Total 12 cost for this project being 350,000. 13 This project, if it's done, could reduce 14 recidivism rates. Six inmates don't 15 come back, guess what, we just saved 16 360,000, which is 10,000 more than the 17 cost of the project. So this is 18 something that can save the County money 19 in the long term. I really think you 20 need to revisit that and go over that 21 again. 22 As to $295,000 increase for tourism. 23 For what? I'm sorry, we've addressed 24 this in the past at the public hearing 25 about the amphitheater, we don't do 9 1 Baleno 2 anything in this County. If you want to 3 put money into tourism can we please 4 start doing things like bringing some 5 major events to the OnCenter. It's a 6 huge OnCenter, we've got awesome space, 7 we've got more motel rooms, let's get 8 something in here that will bring people 9 to the area. 10 The stadium. Why don't we spend a 11 little bit of that money, if you're 12 going to reappropriate it, let's get 13 that flooring for the stadium so we 14 don't have to charge people more to come 15 in and put a big show in there. I would 16 love to give you numbers on that, but 17 unfortunately, as you know, we haven't 18 really had much in the way of concerts 19 at the stadium, so I don't have anything 20 to work with on that, so I apologize. 21 I did go through line by line. I 22 looked through this and what Ms. Mahoney 23 put out there. Cuts to emergency 24 management. Timing on that one I think 25 is rough with considering what's going 10 1 Baleno 2 on in Texas right now. I'm not one of 3 those nay sayers that says, oh my God, 4 Ebola is going to go everywhere. I know 5 it isn't. I spent most of my life in 6 health care. But the potential for 7 something major happening is still in 8 the wind right now. Ask anybody that 9 watches what goes on in other parts of 10 the world and they'll tell you there's 11 stuff that can happen. I don't think 12 emergency management is really what we 13 need to cut. 14 As a ham radio operator, when they 15 can't get there, guess who's stuck doing 16 communications. Thank you, I'm one of 17 them. We do want to make sure that 18 we're prepared in the event of an 19 emergency. 20 Health department. I notice that 21 we're cutting funding for travel and 22 training. I worked in health care most 23 of my life, I don't think I ever worked 24 for a company that paid me to go get 25 training or paid for my travel for 11 1 Baleno 2 training. Why do we? I mean your 3 private employees are forced to pay for 4 it, why shouldn't everybody else? 5 Bear with me while I flip pages, 6 that's what happens when you hold onto 7 these things too long, stuff gets stuck 8 to pages. Parks Department. Anybody 9 that knows me knows that I'm a firm 10 believer that this county has been 11 blessed repeatedly with our County parks 12 system. We have something for everyone, 13 quite literally and year round. 14 If you've never been down to 15 Highland Forest and taken a sleigh ride 16 in the winter time I strongly suggest 17 it. It's entirely worth it and will put 18 a whole new perspective on how you look 19 at our County parks. We need to make 20 sure the park system is being properly 21 managed and properly utilized. And you 22 know, if you're going to look at bumping 23 up tourism, this is how we can do it. 24 Bring people in here. Yeah, we've got 25 the Adirondack Park not too far away but 12 1 Baleno 2 you know what, we've got something 3 better. We've got several amazing 4 little parks that you can go to, two or 5 three of them in a day if you really 6 want to and get all sorts of different 7 experiences, from hiking to walking in 8 Onondaga Lake, ride your bike, I mean 9 it's a lot of fun. 10 Now down to the sheriff's department, 11 police, civil service and custody. As 12 any of you that were at the hearing for 13 the amphitheater know, I did state I was 14 an EMT for 24 years, I know a lot of 15 sheriff's deputies, and those guys do a 16 heck of a job. My only comment on that 17 is if we're cutting down on their 18 overtime pay, I don't want to hear a 19 single person argue consolidation in the 20 near future. It's a big buzz word 21 lately. But if you're going to 22 consolidate away my village and town 23 police and try and tell me I'm going to 24 get coverage from the sheriff's 25 department when you're cutting their 13 1 Baleno 2 overtime, not going to work folks. 3 That's just basically, can only be in 4 one place at a time. And I think I 5 might be at the end. 6 Yes, I am at my last comment. 7 Decreasing funding for Department of 8 Transportation, County maintenance of 9 roads. I don't know if this includes 10 things like salt for winter roads. But 11 follow the Farmers Almanac, we're 12 supposed to have one of snowiest winters 13 we have in a long time. You might want 14 to keep an eye on that. When it comes 15 next year, no salt and no money to pay 16 for salt, I won't be out in there in the 17 front of my house with my salt shaker 18 trying to make the roads nice. 19 And I believe that covers 20 everything. So that's what I had to 21 say, I hope you consider that. Again, 22 everybody that's here local, I challenge 23 you, be here for a regular monthly 24 meeting. Show up, be a part of your 25 government. Thank you everybody and 14 1 Appleton 2 have a wonderful night. 3 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Thank you. And for 4 the record, the wonderful Highland 5 Forest that he mentioned is in the 12th 6 Legislative District. So next we have 7 Dave Appleton. On deck is Ray Hart. 8 DAVE APPLETON: This is the fourth 9 year in a row I've appeared here during 10 budget time to remind you that the New 11 York State comptroller's office has, on 12 multiple occasions, objected to the 13 hiding of City expenses within the 14 County budget. And the hiding of City 15 taxes within the County tax bill. 16 Last spring the County comptroller 17 and the City auditor issued a joint 18 report making the same objections to 19 this deceptive practice, not the first 20 time for either of those offices. And 21 yet this con game continues. 22 About the same time I noticed in the 23 paper several dozen people being 24 arrested for filing false financial 25 information with the County. It's 15 1 Appleton 2 obvious that you people have one set of 3 rules for yourself and another set for 4 the public. It's plain to see why the 5 city, Democratic controlled city likes 6 this deal, it makes them appear that 7 they're doing a better job and spending 8 less money than they actually are. It's 9 a bit hard to figure out why the 10 Republican dominated County government 11 keeps going along with it. I can only 12 conclude it's because of a natural 13 tendency of government agencies to 14 increase their power and their budget 15 whenever possible. 16 This has been going on since, 17 probably since I was a kid, and I became 18 aware of it years ago. And the County 19 comptroller and the City auditor and the 20 New York State controller are also aware 21 of it, and they are better qualified 22 than me to object to it, and they have, 23 and yet it continues. This just proves 24 to me that bipartisan cooperation is 25 still possible when it comes to 16 1 Hart 2 deceiving the taxpayers. I think you 3 should all be ashamed of yourselves if 4 in fact you are capable of shame. Thank 5 you. 6 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Thank you. Next we 7 have Ray Hart, and on deck is Joshua 8 Gardner. 9 RAY HART: I have a microphone but 10 people usually say I speak too loud 11 anyway. I'm here representing myself 12 because I started being a part of the 13 membership called the BMC Club. That 14 club consists of the people that 15 B-I-T-C-H, moan and complain but do 16 nothing to change anything. So what I'm 17 addressing today is financial 18 accountability. And to reduce spending. 19 What happened to mandating zero based 20 budget? Having to base current year 21 budgets on the prior year history. 22 2. Eliminating the spend-down 23 policy at the end of each budget year. 24 Don't encourage spending to budgeted 25 accounts, do not redistribute budgeted 17 1 Hart 2 dollars for under-spent amounts to over- 3 spent budget amounts. An example is, 4 our cut budget items get refunded during 5 committee meetings, known as budget 6 adjustments. Back in 2004, I had 7 documented facts and figures that I gave 8 to then Legislator and Legislative 9 Chairman. Asked them I'm open, call me, 10 and I'll go over it. Nobody called. 11 In those facts there, part of it, 12 was the total of $761,990, with little 13 or no financial accountability on these 14 funds, cost feasibility on how any and 15 all funds and their justifiable reasons 16 for use should be given to the 17 committees for review before any changes 18 are made to the budget. Let's cut out 19 the readjustment to put in cut budget 20 items. 21 Change the accounting system, to 22 provide for inventory or cost control on 23 all budget items. This control can be 24 provided by including yearly audits, 25 which is our financial accountability on 18 1 Hart 2 all departments before discussing next 3 year's budget. Also more important, 4 mandate these audits that these mandated 5 -- also which is more important is that 6 you mandate that these audits be 7 published for review by all, not just 8 the Legislators. And my understanding 9 that this was a standard practice years 10 ago, who authorized or who decided not 11 to do it anymore? That's a good question. 12 Third, on proposed projects. 13 Everybody is probably talking about 14 those. The only thing I have on 15 proposed projects is two things. One, 16 example I use is I-81. How many 17 surveys, proposals and studies, at who 18 knows how much money is being spent on 19 these have to be done for somebody to 20 make a decision? I know it took, it 21 seems like it took forever to put up the 22 three buildings now known as the Justice 23 Jail. Okay, why three years to put up, 24 you know, to relieve overcrowding when 25 they knew that the Public Safety 19 1 Hart 2 Building was falling apart? But this is 3 again happening. 4 Every time I pick up the paper, 5 another suggestion on what to do with 6 I-81. Another proposal, another study. 7 Are you funding these out of your own 8 pocket? I don't think so. Okay, enough 9 of that. 10 I heard the first speaker mention 11 about the kennel up in Jamesville. I 12 have no problem with taking care of 13 animals and stuff and everything else 14 like that. But why at Jamesville? 15 Okay, inmates, it was mentioned was 16 added six inmates would save so much 17 like $60,000 a day, whatever the figures 18 the first gentleman said. But I retired 19 from Jamesville, and it seemed like to 20 me the reason why three towers were put 21 up was due to overcrowding. So for 22 every six going out the door there was 23 always 12 more coming in for various 24 reasons. You still have overcrowding 25 today. Again, like I say, all my 20 1 Hart 2 figures are back in 2004. 3 A suggestion. Yeah, go ahead and 4 build that kennel that you want. But 5 why not imitate what those two ladies 6 out in Chittenango did? Build the 7 facility and let our soldiers coming 8 back that have brain injuries or mental 9 disorders use the dogs in the same 10 manner that supposedly is proposed for 11 these inmates who violated the law. 12 And you know, I understand it's 13 still under consideration. And in 14 addition to that, the money, where is it 15 coming from? And more importantly is, 16 how much money is going to be added to 17 the budget to provide for the staff 18 that's going to be needed. Not only the 19 jail staff but the civilian personnel, 20 who's going to pay those? Taxpayers or 21 out of your own personal accounts? 22 Okay this morning I got perturbed. 23 Front page thing about you settling with 24 an inmate that tried to kill himself by 25 suicide. 1.8 million, okay? On that, 21 1 Hart 2 from, what I found, what was stated or 3 published was that the conclusions were 4 made that supervision was inadequate. 5 Unclear on how long the inmate was 6 hanging before jail staff got to him. 7 Jail staff should have known about the 8 high risk, because inmate has been on 9 suicide watch when he was held there 10 before. 11 And also you're proposing an 12 oversight committee to better address 13 inmate safety issues. Everybody is 14 about the inmates. What about the 15 officers? Any consideration to them? 16 No, you cut staff. And when you cut 17 staff those are the ones that do the job. 18 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Mr. Hart, if you 19 can wrap it up, we're almost six minutes 20 now. If you have written comments 21 please leave them with us. 22 RAY HART: The rest of my comments 23 you have copies on it. I'll close with 24 this morning's editorial. The 25 Legislature's Ways and Means Committee, 22 1 Gardner 2 if Legislators changes go through the 3 County property tax would dip by 1.9 4 percent, instead of 1.2 percent decrease 5 Mahoney put forward. Property taxes 6 will go down $11 a year. However, fees 7 and surcharges and everything else that 8 you provide of services will go up $22. 9 I would really like to see a show of 10 hands among the Legislators that anybody 11 that would give me $22 for ever $11 I 12 hand to them. Anybody willing to do 13 that? I've got a lot of $11 if you want 14 to give me $22 back. That's it. I 15 didn't mean to run over the time. 16 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Thank you, Mr. Hart. 17 Next we have Joshua Gardner. On deck as 18 Earl, again I apologize Mafell or Maffea. 19 M-O-F-F-E-L-L or E-A. 20 JOSHUA GARDNER: Good evening, thank 21 you for the opportunity to speak 22 tonight. I'm speaking about the 23 rehabilitation center for the dogs and 24 inmates at Jamesville penitentiary. I'm 25 in dog rescue, been in dog rescue for 23 1 Gardner 2 several years and believe we need to do 3 more for the animals around here. Last 4 year alone several hundred dogs were put 5 down at Dewitt Animal Hospital, and 6 that's just the numbers for the City of 7 Syracuse, it doesn't include the CNY 8 SPCA or the other shelters around the 9 area. 10 I support this rehabilitation 11 center. But at the same time, I also 12 have questions regarding this center. 13 Several questions that I have are: Who 14 will determine what dogs are qualified 15 for this program? Who will be in charge 16 of the program? Who will be creating 17 the training program and implementing 18 it? What type of training? 19 Myself, we like to, I like to use 20 positive reinforcement training. We 21 don't like to use certain collars, shock 22 collars, prong collars, anything that's 23 going to hurt the dog, we don't want to 24 see that happen. These dogs have gone 25 through enough already. 24 1 Gardner 2 What will happen after, if the dogs 3 aren't adopted in thirty days stay? 4 Sometimes rehabilitating animals takes 5 longer than thirty days. We need to 6 have a plan for that. Who will be in 7 charge of adoptions? Will there be an 8 adoption application and what will the 9 process be? How will people know about 10 the dogs in the program? We need some 11 way of letting the community know, hey, 12 these dogs are available for adoption, 13 whether it be a web site or whether it 14 be something, somebody out there letting 15 everybody know. We have shelters in the 16 area that a lot of people don't know 17 about. One for example, out on Route 18 31, CNY Vets, there is a shelter out 19 there. Not many people even know it 20 exists. 21 I've heard talk about dogs will be 22 pulled from Dewitt Animal Hospital. 23 There is other shelters out there. 24 Dewitt Animal Hospital only does the 25 City of Syracuse, are we also going to 25 1 Moffett 2 pull dogs from other shelters in the 3 area within Onondaga County? Those are 4 all the questions that I have. I would 5 like to thank you for your time once 6 again. 7 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Thank you. Next we 8 have Earl Moffett. And on deck is 9 Stefanie Higgins. 10 EARL MOFFETT: Glad to be here today, 11 my name is Earl Moffett, work for 12 Villaboso Rescue Center in New Orleans, 13 Louisiana, we house approximately 400 14 some odd dogs, and they are taken care 15 of every day. But I'm here today only 16 to speak only on experience. I'm not up 17 here with the numbers, what we can save, 18 what we have to spend. 19 I've currently served a sentence of 20 22 years, and in the process of me 21 serving that sentence I was involved 22 with taking care of animals. In the 23 process of me coming home in 2009 I 24 wound up losing my arm to a football 25 injury. So that leaves me with a 26 1 Moffett 2 disability, coming home on parole, 3 actual offender with a disability. Look 4 real bad for me. I think everything 5 happens for a reason and that's why 6 today I'm standing before y'all 7 expressing myself about this shelter in 8 Jamesville. 9 I do think everybody deserves a 10 second chance. But some of the guys 11 that are already incarcerated, everybody 12 is not good, but some of the guys are 13 good. Living example right here. 14 Without this program of Pit Bulls and 15 Parolees to date, do not know where I 16 would be at. Seriously, I really think 17 these animals saved my life. Also my 18 co-workers, surrounded by a lot of good 19 people. So I do think this program 20 could help the guys that want to be 21 helped. I'm one of them that want to be 22 helped, and I've been with this program 23 now three and-a-half years. Also I'm an 24 ex-parolee. So I would just like to say 25 just give it a chance before you shoot 27 1 Higgins 2 it down. Everybody deserves a second 3 chance and I thank y'all for having me. 4 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Thank you, 5 Mr. Moffett, next Stefanie Higgins. And 6 on deck is David Sturgis. 7 LEGISLATOR MAY: Mr. Chairman want 8 to apologize to you, my colleagues, 9 dealing with a medical emergency at home 10 and I have to leave right now, thank you. 11 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Thank you. 12 Speaking of football injuries, yeah, 13 that's what we're dealing with. 14 STEFANIE HIGGINS: Thank you. Hi 15 everybody, I'm Stefanie Higgins, I'm the 16 founder of Cuse Pit Crew. I stand 17 before you here eight months later, and 18 eight months later I ask you to remember 19 one thing I mentioned, when I stood here 20 back in February. And this is not just 21 to vote on a dog shelter. This is a 22 vote that will help solve a major 23 community problem. Before you is a 24 solution. 25 As Cuse Pit Crew president I have 28 1 Higgins 2 met with the County's team to discuss 3 plans and development along with other 4 key advisers on this project since the 5 fall of 2013. We have collaborated on 6 ideas, researched and shared our 7 pragmatic views on how this dog shelter 8 can and will make a difference in the 9 CNY community. As this project continues 10 to gain local and national attention we 11 continue to hear from all sides of the 12 spectrum on why this will be a benefit 13 to our community. 14 You hear community and taxpayers say 15 things like, it will help stop the 16 unnecessary killing of homeless dogs; or 17 what a great way to help give inmates a 18 purpose. And hopefully they will not 19 continue a crime-filled life upon 20 leaving the prison; or this is a cost 21 effective solution for the community if 22 it helps stop an inmate from reoffending. 23 All of these are valid and real 24 reasons why the shelter should be built. 25 And why that initial $100,000 is a 29 1 Higgins 2 necessity to make that happen. Your 3 constituents are not only opposed to 4 spending taxpayer dollars on more 5 euthanasia medicine for our adoptable 6 dogs in this area, but they are also 7 seeking out ways to stop paying money 8 for individuals who reoffend and end up 9 back at Jamesville. Cuse Pit Crew is 10 one of the many groups attempting to 11 decrease the kill rate in shelters and 12 decrease crime in Central New York. 13 One of the programs Cuse Pit Crew 14 takes great pride in is our humane 15 association program. We have decided to 16 become a part of the solution by working 17 with our youth. If we can impact even 18 one child with this program, that 19 results in one child not choosing a 20 crime filled life, and we have done our 21 job. That same goes for this program. 22 It's not a matter of if the program will 23 change an inmate, it's a question of how 24 many lives it's going to change. 25 As a born and raised Central New 30 1 Higgins 2 Yorker who has spent many years 3 volunteering in a grass roots fashion in 4 some of the hardest hits neighborhood in 5 Syracuse, I can tell you point blank I 6 am tired and frustrated of continuing to 7 see violence and crime. This program is 8 one part of the puzzle in combatting 9 violence towards humans and animals. To 10 deny the funding for this project will 11 deny the opportunity to help create a 12 more humane community. 13 I ask you today to give an 14 opportunity to show the nation how 15 Onondaga County can be a model for other 16 communities by leading the field of 17 potential research and crime preventive 18 programs. Allow us to create a platform 19 for change right here in our own back 20 yard, and I invite each one of you to 21 join us on this journey. Thank you. 22 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Thank you. Next is 23 David Sturgis. And on deck is Sherry 24 Relyea. 25 DAVID STURGIS: My name is David 31 1 Sturgis 2 Sturgis, I own Dog Daze Pet Store here 3 in Syracuse. I also own Hardeko, 4 Helping Paws Pantry. We feed about 400 5 animals a month through our pantry, our 6 store. What I propose to do to help 7 this program is to feed these animals 8 that you're going to have at the 9 penitentiary, so it's not going to be a 10 cost to the City of Syracuse. 11 Plus, if we look at the big picture 12 of it we can get manufactures on board 13 that pay companies with dogs to do food 14 trials. They pay to have that done. So 15 they would pay us, if approached right, 16 to do a food trial at the penitentiary 17 to help absorb some of the costs that 18 are going to be associated with that. 19 So if this program gets off the ground 20 there is bigger things that we can do 21 with this. So it's not going to be a 22 burden to the community, it's going to 23 be a way to make money to keep the 24 program going. And I think we can find 25 other companies to jump on board when 32 1 Sturgis 2 they see this, you know, with your 3 pharmaceutical companies supplying the 4 drugs for the animals, for their 5 prescriptions and everything like that. 6 And I think by doing that I think it's a 7 great way. 8 Plus we're going to help an inmate. 9 And by doing the food trials and let 10 them train animals they're going to 11 learn more. So when they come out 12 they're going to have some respect. 13 They're not going to be going back in. 14 So in essence, we're not going to have 15 the overcrowd. If we take two that come 16 out, let's say only one goes back in, we 17 gained one. That's all I've got to say, 18 thank you. 19 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Next is Sherry 20 Relyea. And Caitlin Simmons is on deck. 21 SHERRY RELYEA: Hi, my name is 22 Sherry Relyea, I'm a New York State DEC 23 Wildlife Rescuer, License Class 2. I 24 actually teach wildlife rehabilitation. 25 This all started back when I was 15 33 1 Relyea 2 years old, and the SPCA hired me, under 3 age. And through my experiences as a 16 4 year old with the gas chamber putting an 5 animal down, a dog that did nothing, 6 that was the sweetest thing, it made a 7 purpose in my life. 8 Background: I'm a paralegal; animals 9 you don't really make much money, so I 10 make money with paralegal. I also own 11 apartments. I also have people, they 12 are allowed to have pets as long as they 13 obey by the laws of the town and the 14 villages and they're spayed or neutered. 15 I'm very pet friendly. 16 And another thing is, I believe in 17 this system because personally my son 18 went to prison. And he was an 19 alcoholic, he was looking at years and 20 years. He was like me, he was very -- 21 he was raised with animals in and out of 22 his life. He worked with the dogs, and 23 I have to say: Pit Bulls and Parolees, 24 thank you. You've brought a whole new 25 world into my life. Because there is so 34 1 Relyea 2 many out there. 3 You know, back in my day it was 4 Dobermans and Rottweilers. Now we're 5 looking at Pit Bulls. Jamesville, I had 6 a daughter that was in Jamesville, and I 7 do believe it's going to save everybody 8 money. I'd rather see 20 dogs and 9 inmates that have maybe nobody else to 10 support them or feel love, for some 11 reason they're doing a crime. We don't 12 know what that crime, why they're doing 13 it. Because everybody knows right from 14 wrong, okay? But I've seen it happen 15 personally where the bond is. And I do 16 believe it would save the County money. 17 We're looking at closures on so many 18 shelters out in my area. I'm in Madison 19 County. That's all I have to say, I 20 very much support it and I hope that it 21 goes through. And I do believe every 22 single prison should have a program like 23 this because I think it would turn -- I 24 don't care if it turns one person around 25 or if it turns 10 people around, it's 35 1 Simmons 2 going to bring them back into our 3 community. Thank you. 4 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Next we have 5 Caitlin Simmons. And with Kristen 6 Contreras on deck. 7 CAITLIN SIMMONS: Good evening. My 8 name is Caitlin Simmons. Currently I'm 9 a board member for Cuse Pit Crew, an 10 advocacy and education group refueling 11 the human and animal connection in the 12 City of Syracuse. I work closely with 13 Dewitt Animal Hospital as their shelter 14 liaison to help coordinate a volunteer 15 program that involves working with the 16 dogs through enrichment programs, 17 training and socialization. Kerry 18 Driscoll the shelter manager at the 19 Shelter had this to say about our work 20 together: "Starting in the summer of 21 2014 the Shelter has opened their doors 22 to Cuse Pit Crew volunteers to aid in 23 socializing the strays as they wait to 24 be adopted. The dedicated volunteers 25 work with the dogs on leash walking, 36 1 Simmons 2 basic commands and establishing the 3 human/animal bond. The volunteer 4 program has benefited the dogs in a 5 number of ways. Being taking out of 6 their kennels to receive one-to-one 7 attention has helped their temperament, 8 it's encouraged trust and overall 9 increases their adoptability. Dogs in a 10 shelter environment need attention, 11 stimulation and compassion to bring out 12 their best. Establishing the Jamesville 13 Prison Shelter would give many Syracuse 14 strays a second chance." 15 Sadly though, many of these dogs 16 don't get a second chance because of 17 time. According to the Syracuse Post 18 Standard in 2013 over 900 dogs were 19 brought in through Animal Control, and 20 over 500 were euthanized. However, this 21 year alone 200 dogs have already been 22 adopted, which is over one-third of an 23 increase since last year. 24 So how do we reverse these numbers, 25 how do we get it to be different? 37 1 Contreras 2 Establishing the Jamesville Prison 3 Shelter would benefit both humans and 4 animals and allow for well deserved 5 second chances for both. Thank you. 6 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Next we have 7 Kristen Contreras with Kim Strong on 8 deck. 9 KRISTEN CONTRERAS: Good evening 10 everyone, I'm Kristen Contreras and I'm 11 nobody. I'm just a citizen, I'm a 12 donator to places like Dewitt Animal 13 Hospital, Cuse Pit Crew and then there 14 is other things that these shelters do 15 in our neighborhood and in our community. 16 I'm not going to let you know how many 17 dogs my husband and I have in Onondaga 18 County in our home in the City. But we 19 do rescue, we believe in rescue, we 20 believe rehabilitation. 21 My husband found our ten year old 22 pit bull chained to a fence, beaten 23 bloodied, battered. You could tell the 24 vertebrae from the top of her neck to 25 the end of her tail. I welcome any one 38 1 Contreras 2 of you folks to come into my home, sit 3 on my sofa and meet Nina. She will 4 greet you, she will sit next to you, and 5 put her head right on your lap and you 6 will fall in love. And that is because 7 my husband dedicated his time to 8 rehabilitate one dog. Could you imagine 9 these shelter animals coming in to a 10 prison system where there is constant 11 human contact. These dogs will help the 12 inmates and the inmates will help the 13 dogs. That's what this program is 14 about. 15 Take some of our funding from 16 whatever you have it going to and put it 17 towards this program. I guarantee 18 you're going to see a turn-around. I 19 guarantee you're going to see less 20 people coming in your doors and more 21 people leaving. And that's all I have 22 to say. 23 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Next is Kim Strong, 24 with Robin Martino on deck. 25 KIM STRONG: Good evening and thank 39 1 Strong 2 you for allowing me to speak. My name 3 is Kim Strong, I'm with a group from 4 Utica, called Laneys Army, we are a 5 facebook, group we save animals. The 6 one thing I haven't heard tonight is 7 prisoners are very self absorbed 8 typically. They think about themselves, 9 usually that's what gets them even 10 trouble. The one thing animals can do 11 is draw that out. They can teach the 12 people compassion. 13 I visit houses every day, so I drive 14 around with my dogs every day in my car. 15 I go from Lake George to Poughkeepsie. 16 People see my dogs in the car with their 17 head sticking out the window, they smile. 18 It's a natural human reaction. You see 19 an animal, unless you're terrified of 20 them you smile, and I have all pit bulls. 21 What animals can do is draw people 22 out of themselves. It can get them out 23 of their own nonsense in their own head. 24 It teaches them living skills, life 25 skills, compassion, work ethic. You 40 1 Strong 2 can't teach that out of a text book. 3 You need a reason and a purpose for them 4 to get up every morning and get to those 5 animals because those animals need them. 6 They need them more than probably 7 anything has in their entire life. So 8 for the first time it's a positive 9 interaction. It's good for the dogs, 10 it's good for the prisoners. 11 Because being needed when you're 12 hopeless and helpless, which you pretty 13 much are in prison, and you have all day 14 to think about why you're innocent and 15 why the system did you wrong and why 16 this person did you wrong and that 17 person did you wrong, the dogs don't do 18 you wrong. These dogs give their heart 19 and soul. They bond with you, they 20 don't care if you're disabled, they 21 don't care if you're a jerk. As long as 22 you're kind to them they will love you. 23 That unconditional love is something 24 many of these men and women have never 25 experienced. It can change hearts, it 41 1 Strong 2 can change lives. 3 So in the grand scheme of life if 4 you're talking about a hundred thousand 5 dollars, guys, in the city of Syracuse, 6 I guess I would have to ask if you plan 7 on not doing it, did you fall and bump 8 your head? I mean it's just a hundred 9 thousand dollars to have that kind of 10 impact to possibly make a difference in 11 that many number of lives. Never mind 12 animals, because I don't know if you're 13 dog people or not and you may not be, 14 but this isn't a dog thing. This is 15 about people too. And animals can give 16 a gift that humans can't begin to touch, 17 and that's the unconditional love, and 18 the 100 percent being needed by these 19 men and women. And that purpose changes 20 lives. 21 I work with sex offenders, and 22 people said, how could you do that on 23 parole? Because they have a reason to 24 get up in the morning, they have a 25 reason to not get into trouble and they 42 1 Martino 2 have a reason to come to work every day, 3 and I know what they're doing and I'm 4 watching them. They're not out 5 reoffending. 6 So I guess what I'm saying is, if 7 you want to go back to old school 8 thinking and just go, yeah, they're not 9 worth it, the prisoners aren't worth it, 10 the dogs aren't worth it. Too bad. But 11 if you think people are worth it and you 12 think that some of your constituents who 13 donate hundreds of thousands of dollars 14 to these shelters are worth it, you 15 might want to reconsider the hundred 16 thousand bucks, folks. And it's not 17 that much in a city this size to have 18 this kind of impact. Thank you for 19 letting me speak. 20 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Next we have Robin 21 Martino, with Jan Markarian on deck. 22 ROBIN MARTINO: Hello, good evening. 23 The issue of the Jamesville Shelter 24 Project is not so much about animals, 25 about people, about money, it's about 43 1 Martino 2 compassion. It's about second chances. 3 I often get asked, who rescued who with 4 my adopted dog. And I question that 5 because in so many ways she rescued me. 6 She taught me about looking at things 7 from a different angle. 8 The Jamesville Shelter Project 9 cannot only help in reducing our overall 10 costs in inmates. Six inmates that 11 don't come back alone will pay for itself. 12 We give a second chance to animals and 13 people that are well deserving. If they 14 have the passion to work with an animal, 15 they deserve a second chance. And the 16 animal at no fault of their own has been 17 placed in this system because of us. 18 They can teach us so much. Why not 19 place ourselves as the leaders that we 20 are in so many other ways. Destiny. We 21 have positioned ourself to be leaders, 22 let's do that in this role and support 23 the Shelter Project. Thank you. 24 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Next we have Jan 25 Markarian. With Alesha Brown on deck. 44 1 Markarian 2 JAN MARKARIAN: Thank you for the 3 opportunity to speak tonight. My name 4 is Jan Markarian, and I'm a volunteer 5 with Cuse Pit Crew. I am also a retired 6 caseworker, having worked for 30 years 7 in Children's Division in both foster 8 care and preventive services. I am 9 asking that the Onondaga County 10 Legislature revisit the budget for the 11 Jamesville Shelter Project in order to 12 approve the original budget request of 13 $350,000. 14 I understand that finances are very 15 tight and appreciate that $250,000 was 16 approved by this Legislature in February 17 2014. I also believe that the office of 18 the County Executive tried in good faith 19 to make this lower budget amount meet 20 the needs of this proposed Shelter 21 Program. However, it is the original 22 amount of 350,000 that is needed for 23 what is to be a basic, no frills shelter 24 program, but which also is a unique and 25 timely opportunity to revitalize the 45 1 Markarian 2 efforts to assist the dogs at Dewitt 3 Animal Hospital and the inmates at 4 Jamesville Penitentiary. This is a 5 win-win opportunity for our community. 6 Time to time it is important for us 7 to step back in order to reexamine and 8 question our efforts. In the mid 1970s 9 Child Welfare in New York State needed 10 to address all the concerns raised by 11 foster care drift in our foster care 12 system. Foster care had an original 13 design to be a safe haven for children 14 while parents had the opportunity to 15 regroup for their kids to come home. 16 While the original plan was helpful, 17 over time children began do languish in 18 the foster care system without purpose 19 and direction; with a sacrifice of 20 quality of life for the kids and their 21 parents. 22 Fortunately, over the 1980s we 23 realized the need for new ideas and 24 resources along with financial 25 investment to help provide a variety of 46 1 Markarian 2 means and opportunities for permanency 3 planning for kids and their parents. 4 In some way there was a similar 5 drift taking place at Dewitt Animal 6 Hospital for the dogs in need. The 7 shelter is a safe haven on one hand, 8 while on the other hand many dogs 9 languish in this facility, and 10 approximately 650 dogs are euthanized 11 each year; all due to limited adoptive 12 opportunities. 13 It is true we have to resolve the 14 problems with cruelty and neglect, 15 inappropriate breeding practices and the 16 need for more affordable spaying and 17 neuter services. All of this is being 18 worked on by many animal welfare 19 advocates in this community. But let's 20 also expand the opportunities for 21 adoption for these shelter dogs. 22 Meanwhile, at Jamesville 23 penitentiary the high inmate recidivism 24 reflects a drift of its own and a human 25 loss in quality of life. So now in 2014 47 1 Markarian 2 the Jamesville Shelter Project brings 3 together new ideas and new resources. 4 So many animal welfare advocates find 5 the ideas of this project so exciting 6 and hopeful for both the animals and the 7 humans, and we want to help by 8 volunteering at no cost. 9 We now just need the realistic 10 financial investment in order for this 11 program to happen. And there are more 12 incentives. When a Jamesville inmate 13 does not return to Jamesville, that is a 14 saving of $60,000 per year. That 15 financial saving is so important, but so 16 is the saving of an animal's life as 17 well as improving the quality of life 18 for a Jamesville inmate. 19 Please, let's not take a step back 20 out the pessimism and withhold the 21 $100,000 in question. With the 22 Jamesville Shelter Project we have an 23 opportunity for all of us to get behind, 24 work together and be proud of in our 25 community. Please approve the original 48 1 Brown 2 $350,000 requested so that this creative 3 program can become a reality. Thank you. 4 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Next is Alesha 5 Brown, with Melissa Robar on deck. 6 ALESHA BROWN: Hello, my name is 7 Alesha Brown, humane education 8 coordinator with Cuse Pit Crew. Humane 9 education is an important piece with 10 helping to improve those in our 11 community, both human and animal. 12 Educating the youth and adults on 13 compassion and proper knowledge of how 14 to take care of an animal goes hand in 15 hand. There is a connection between 16 animal violence and violence to other 17 humans. The inmates at Jamesville will 18 have a chance to develop a wide range of 19 skills such as creating or 20 reestablishing human and animal 21 relationships, a sense of self worth, 22 following a strict program schedule as 23 well as helping out the community to 24 lower the number of euthanasia of dogs 25 at shelters. All of these skills will 49 1 Brown 2 help them not only reintegrate back into 3 society, but also help refuel the human- 4 animal connection. 5 As quoted by a former inmate, 6 Hartman, at Guinnett County jail dog 7 program in Georgia, "Over the last year 8 I have lost everything, like so many of 9 my fellow inmates. With no family and 10 no support from the outside, time can 11 get pretty rough in here. But on 12 October 31st, I became part of the 13 Second Chance program. And let me tell 14 you what a gift. I can honestly say 15 this program has helped me greatly in 16 seeing a positive teacher for myself. 17 It has helped me to find inner peace 18 that allows me to focus on my daily life 19 here as dog handler, as well as letting 20 go of the anxieties related to my case, 21 my future and my past." And I ask you 22 to consider the $100,000 asked for 23 funds. Thank you. 24 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Next we have 25 Melissa Robar. With Valerie McCarthy on 50 1 Zeigler 2 deck. Melissa Robar? She may have 3 stepped out, we'll call her again at the 4 end in case if she comes back. So 5 Valerie McCarthy. With Jason Zeigler on 6 deck. Valerie? Okay, we'll leave her 7 as well until the end. Jason Zeigler. 8 With Irene Aurora Flores on deck. 9 JASON ZEIGLER: Hi, my name is Jason 10 Zeigler, met with some of you from the 11 Legislature, hopefully I'll be able to 12 meet with the rest of you. We're 13 calling ourselves the Onondaga County 14 Gideon Society. The membership is 15 comprised of attorneys and investigators 16 who either are or were dealing with the 17 Assigned Counsel Program. We represent 18 people on their defense, and the 19 conflicts for Family Court. 20 First off, I think we sent a lot of 21 correspondence to the Legislators and I 22 want to thank you for being responsive, 23 for meeting with us and hearing us out, 24 however you feel. As some of our 25 colleagues have contacted some of the 51 1 Zeigler 2 other Legislators on their own. There 3 are three things I wanted to talk about 4 today. 5 About a week ago the number of us 6 met with the County Executive about some 7 of these issues. The meeting was 8 limited to about three or four of us 9 from our group just to keep it small. 10 So one of the things we did in 11 preparation for the meeting was to poll 12 some of our members about some of the 13 suggestions they had to maybe deal with 14 some of the issues in the system. I 15 have about a six page document that we 16 gave to Ms. Mahoney, and I made copies 17 of all of this and given it to the clerk 18 so everyone is going to have a copy of 19 these three things. 20 The different suggestions, I mean 21 there is some familiarity with the 22 program from the people who are making 23 the suggestions. Obviously if you have 24 questions about it, please feel free to 25 contact us. So I have that. 52 1 Zeigler 2 Second thing is, I think most of you 3 are aware at this point, the New York 4 Civil Liberties Union has a lawsuit 5 pending against the State and currently 6 four counties within the state, us being 7 one of them. A couple weeks ago they 8 issued a report called State Of 9 Injustice. And it talks about some of 10 the different issues that they see as an 11 indigent defense state, why this County 12 features prominently in this report. 13 It's not the kind of report you want to 14 be featured in prominently. 15 One of the things they highlight is 16 for example, the District Attorney's 17 office is getting 35 percent, I'm sorry 18 35 times more money for investigation 19 than we are. The amount of money 20 they're getting is about 20 percent of 21 our whole budget for defense. I have no 22 problem with the District Attorney's 23 office being adequately funded. I have 24 a problem with us not being adequately 25 funded. As my friend Ralph put it, you 53 1 Zeigler 2 know, we're simply seeking to be paid 3 for the work we put into these cases. 4 And what we're often finding is that's 5 not happening. 6 You know, one thing there is a lot 7 of robust put into the system, there is 8 a lot of opposition when we submit our 9 bills. We're being told, you know, you 10 went to court too much, you had too much 11 contact with your client, you shouldn't 12 have filed a motion, despite the fact 13 the motion was granted and case 14 dismissed, which was a lot cheaper than 15 a trial. Just a lot of things that are 16 frankly obnoxious. 17 Leads me to the third document. I 18 believe it was a week and-a-half ago, 19 the United States Department of Justice 20 filed a Statement of Interest in the 21 hearing case. And they didn't take a 22 position as to whether defense was 23 occurring or simply the appearance of it 24 occurring. What they did ask the Judge 25 to consider are some things to see if 54 1 Zeigler 2 counsel was really being provided or 3 simply the appearance. 4 One of the things that really stood 5 out to me was, they're looking for what 6 they call traditional indicators of 7 representation. Things such as testing 8 the prosecution's case, communicating 9 with your client when you're first 10 assigned, just a litany of things. And 11 if you look at the things that Assigned 12 Counsel often object to and are asking 13 Judges to cut our bills for, these are 14 the very things we need to do. 15 Essentially the actions of the 16 program are destroying the very thing 17 they claim they're trying to preserve. 18 You know, I think moving forward, and 19 some of my colleagues are going to speak 20 today, they're going to speak to some 21 things that are important maybe you 22 should know. One of the things I made a 23 point to everybody we spoke with, there 24 is no one entity that supervises 25 indigent defense in this State or in 55 1 Zeigler 2 this County. That's part of what the 3 NYCLU case is about, part of it. 4 That being said, you know the Judges 5 over in court they have a certain role 6 in this system. But they don't control 7 everything either. One of the issues 8 that we're often run up against is we're 9 simply underfunded. And I think 10 whatever animosity there may be between 11 the panel attorneys, the experts, 12 investigators, everybody that goes into 13 presenting a defense between us and the 14 Assigned Counsel Program, I do think 15 that the money is a big issue. And that 16 is something that really the Legislature 17 does control. 18 If there is any kind of questions, 19 we've had I think eight attorneys now 20 are suing about not getting paid. And 21 some people to pay this, you know, and 22 other ones somebody gets disabled and 23 they close their practice down and 24 Assigned Counsel takes advantage of that 25 and decides we're not going to pay you. 56 1 Zeigler 2 So whatever they're telling you why 3 they're getting sued, you have lawsuit 4 number eight down the pipeline, and 5 that's from the attorneys not the 6 defendants. If you have any questions, 7 if there is anything you would like to 8 know, please speak to us. I've sent, 9 usually when I have an issue I've sent 10 e-mails. But there are about 38 of us 11 in the group now, and it's probably 12 growing. 13 One of the issues I think we don't 14 have more people here, we don't have 15 more people willing to speak out is that 16 there is a lot of retaliation. I've 17 gone through a lot. My colleagues have 18 gone through a lot, simply for having 19 the willingness to say enough is enough 20 or this is wrong. 21 Also, one last thing. There is an 22 audit that's been going on for the last 23 year and-a-half with the County 24 comptroller's office. In the middle of 25 this audit we met with the deputy 57 1 Zeigler 2 comptroller, and the Assigned Counsel 3 Program was shredding documents. Maybe 4 it was innocuous or maybe not, but it 5 looks bad. The point to bring it up is 6 there is a man at the comptroller's 7 office, his name is Phil Britt, he's 8 been very helpful trying to coordinate 9 all of this stuff. I think he would be 10 somebody to talk to. And I want to 11 basically take this opportunity to tell 12 him, thank you. Really do appreciate 13 the work he's done in trying to resolve 14 some of these issues. Thanks for your 15 time. 16 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Next is Irene 17 Aurora Flores. With Marc Stornelli on 18 deck. 19 IRENE AURORA FLORES: Good evening 20 everybody, I'm Irene Aurora Flores, I am 21 a criminal defense attorney. All of my 22 cases either involve indigent defendants 23 or people who barely miss qualifying for 24 a free lawyer, and therefore I charge 25 very minimal. What has made a 58 1 Flores 2 difference in the last three jury trials 3 which I have won, was the provision -- 4 was my ability to beg and get experts to 5 help me. So if DNA for forensic 6 evidence is at issue and the DA is able 7 to turn over their evidence to the 8 Center for Forensic Sciences, they have 9 a ballistics expert, they have a DNA 10 expert, latent fingerprint expert. 11 Criminal defense attorneys should have 12 access and have no problem getting an 13 expert who's willing to review that 14 evidence. The problem is there are very 15 few, if any experts, who are willing to 16 take an assigned counsel case at $35 an 17 hour. 18 And the one investigator that I was 19 able to get wasn't paid yet for a trial 20 that he did for me two years ago. And 21 that's unacceptable. This is supposed 22 to be a free nation. And there are 23 people who wonder, why should rapists, 24 murderers, sex offenders, why should 25 they get free lawyers? Well simply put, 59 1 Flores 2 it's because it's required in the 3 Constitution. You can't afford a lawyer 4 one has to be provided. And it's also a 5 right to have effective assistance of 6 counsel. And I know nothing about 7 ballistics, I know nothing about DNA or 8 forensic sciences. 9 I know a lot about defending my 10 client, but how can I do that when these 11 days with all these crime dramas people 12 love to watch, juries are going to be 13 listening for forensic evidence. If the 14 defense is not able to at least test or 15 counter the prosecution's evidence what 16 kind of representation is someone going 17 to get? Especially if that person is 18 looking at a lot of prison time. 19 I'm not asking that we, the defense 20 bar, who represents indigent defendants 21 in the Assigned Counsel Program be equal 22 in resources with the DA, but we should 23 at least be on par. We should be able 24 to get experts that we need. We should 25 be able to be paid for what we do. I 60 1 Flores 2 mean why would anyone want to travel all 3 the way to Elbridge to represent someone 4 when Assigned Counsel says, well, we're 5 not going to pay you for your time to 6 travel out there. Or Van Buren, for 7 example. Okay, but it's that person's 8 right to have a lawyer. And many of us 9 eat that. I mean that's at least an 10 hour out of my time each way. So all 11 I'm asking the Legislature is to put the 12 defense on par with the DA's office. 13 And I want to close by saying, 14 addressing the people who spoke on 15 behalf of the Jamesville shelter. 10 16 years ago I took in my brother's six 17 year old German Shepherd, who outweighed 18 me by 10 pounds, because he was assigned 19 abroad; he was in the Air Force. No one 20 wanted to take this German Shepherd in. 21 And no one told me either that he hated 22 cats, but I had a cat. But this 23 happened to be the best dog I ever had. 24 I have two dogs now that I've rescued. 25 All you've got to do is look in their 61 1 Stornelli 2 eyes. At the end of the day after 3 dealing with Judges, colleagues, 4 clients, everybody else who really just 5 don't like defense attorneys, I like 6 coming home to my dogs. And for my 7 clients who are in jail many of them 8 don't have anybody visiting them except 9 me. And if they can look forward to 10 waking up to a dog who will greet them 11 like they're the best thing in the 12 world, it is well worth the $350,000 13 that you're asking for. Thank you. 14 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Next we have Marc 15 Stornelli. With Arleen Fordock on deck. 16 MARC STORNELLI: Hello everybody, my 17 name is Marc Stornelli, defense 18 attorney, I also practice family law. 19 The majority of my clients are from the 20 Assigned Counsel Program. And as I 21 spoke here last year once before on this 22 topic, there is a lot of things that go 23 into representing the indigents that you 24 may not realize that are now part of the 25 standard litigation things that you 62 1 Stornelli 2 think about. Lots of people have 3 issues, emotional issues or they come 4 from a home life which is problematic. 5 Domestic violence problems and drug 6 addictions and alcohol. 7 And there is a lot of things out 8 there you have to do for these clients 9 that are not strictly typical lawyer 10 functions that you have to do them or 11 they will miss their court dates, get 12 arrested again, forget what you told 13 them already. And there is a lot of 14 support work that almost all your 15 Assigned Counsel lawyers provide for 16 these type of indigent defendants that 17 are really necessary for the community 18 as a whole because when it comes to 19 mental and emotional health issues it 20 always overlaps usually somehow with the 21 law in most case, not in all cases but 22 most cases. But in most cases like that 23 you've got an overlap of problems with 24 the law when there is emotional or 25 mental health issues. And you have to 63 1 Stornelli 2 address those if you're going to do even 3 a minimal job for your client. 4 And that's very difficult to do with 5 the Assigned Counsel Program that 6 regulates the number of court appearances, 7 how much correspondence you can have 8 with your client, how many phone calls 9 you can make. And it's not based on 10 whether it's an extraordinary bill, it's 11 just based on whether that is just too 12 much for that charge and you want to cut 13 it down a little more. The Assigned 14 Counsel Program seems to be using a 15 fiscal analysis of our bills rather than 16 a compassionate or even a judicial 17 analysis. So we deserve to be paid more 18 and we're simply not allowed to do it 19 unless we appeal it and fight for three 20 or four months, sometimes longer. We 21 eventually get paid sometimes, and then 22 there are other problems with other 23 attorneys who don't even get paid. 24 So the Assigned Counsel Program, the 25 way it's currently run is actually 64 1 Fordock 2 interfering with a lot of good things 3 that we do for the community and for our 4 client as a whole. And that's about all 5 I want to let people know, that you see 6 the side of Assigned Counsel 7 representation that is not just motions 8 and paperwork and appearing in court, 9 there is this other side of it as well 10 and that needs some financial support. 11 Thank you. 12 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Next, Arlene 13 Fordock. And Jeff I believe it's Pappy 14 on deck, 7030 East Genesee Street, 15 Fayetteville. 16 ARLEEN FORDOCK: Now to the 17 amphitheater I would like to see add the 18 aquariums that we were promised years 19 ago. Whether it was a City aquarium or 20 the County aquarium, I don't care. We 21 need another tourist attraction. The 22 amphitheater is only good for six months 23 out of the year. You're going to invest 24 all that kind of money into something 25 that only operates and earns money for 65 1 Fordock 2 six months out of the year. You could 3 use the aquarium next door, it would 4 become just as popular. 5 The Kicks starter program I would 6 suggest to all you dog lovers, of which 7 I am a dog lover, would help you get the 8 hundred thousand dollars to operate the 9 extra things that you need that the 10 County taxpayers cannot provide. That's 11 just an idea, float it around. 12 Taxpayers don't have to pay for 13 everything. 14 The executive orders coming out of 15 Ms. Mahoney's office. Is there 16 something in the Charter that can limit 17 her executive orders per year? That 18 would help tremendously, not getting her 19 projects, overburdening the taxpayers. 20 The bonding that's needed for the 21 amphitheater, especially 50 million from 22 what I understand, what does that do 23 with your bonding rating once we 24 participate in that program? Does it 25 drop, does it get worse, do the 66 1 Fordock 2 investors even want to invest? I don't 3 know the rules and regs but there are 4 rules and regs. 5 The Carnegie building, which is next 6 door, was supposed to be sold. That 7 didn't work out. And it has not been 8 sold that I know of right now. The 9 plan, I would like to see is a public 10 art museum, which was promised years and 11 years ago downtown. Call it the County, 12 call it the City, call it a combination 13 of the two, I don't care. It would give 14 another tourist place for the people to 15 go. Not just the Everson, the regular 16 people would like the art museum. It's 17 not that expensive, we have enough art 18 volunteers in the community. 19 The volunteers for the dog project 20 is another problem. I don't think you 21 can get that many without cooperating 22 with the American Kennel Club. The 23 training that they require to give a 24 good citizen certificate, I do not know 25 the rules and regulations for that part 67 1 Parry 2 of the American Kennel Club. 3 Going to the initial birth of the 4 dog and the cats as well, I would like 5 to see them spayed and neutered within a 6 proper time after birth. So you can 7 adopt a pet that would not multiply and 8 become a problem to you so that you 9 could not feed it or take care of it or 10 pay the veterinary bills. That is 11 probably an invasion of privacy to a lot 12 of people but I would like to start at 13 the beginning and what we're doing at 14 the penitentiary is for the benefit of 15 the end of a problem situation. 16 I thank you very much for your time 17 remember the taxpayers are paying the 18 bills and the Legislators are not. 19 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Next is Jeff Parry. 20 With Jennifer Rosenberg on deck. 21 JEFF PARRY: Folks my name is 22 Jeffrey Parry. Can you hear me back 23 there in the back? Somebody nod, yes, 24 no. Okay, good. I'm an attorney, I 25 represent the Onondaga County Gideon 68 1 Parry 2 Society, it's composed of people, 3 attorneys that represent Family Court 4 matters and criminal matters in Onondaga 5 County. I understand we have a large 6 number of animal rights and animal 7 lovers here, and if nothing else I have 8 learned to play up to my audience. 9 I am going to tell you about a 10 horrible story. 15 years ago I 11 represented a young man who threw a six 12 week puppy, six week old puppy off a six 13 story building. Since then those two 14 numbers, 66 have stuck in my mind about 15 that case. I have two dogs at home, I 16 have had five children. It was an 17 extremely difficult case to take. I got 18 phone calls from literally all over the 19 country. We had to turn our phones off 20 at the office because folks were upset 21 that I was involved in this thing. 22 And I started to investigate the 23 case. And the young man who did this 24 was about 12, his IQ was 55. He was 25 autistic, his mother was a crack whore 69 1 Parry 2 and she had beaten him his entire life. 3 And the reason he threw the puppy off 4 the building was because one of her 5 johns brought the puppy to mom, and mom 6 was affectionate to the puppy. And the 7 puppy was certainly never affectionate 8 to my client. My client reacted the way 9 disturbed people sometimes do. 10 Now, the District Attorney did a 11 wonderful job, he was prosecuting my 12 client and he was intending to put him 13 in prison. Except that the puppy 14 probably had a higher IQ than my client 15 did. Now, one of the things that you do 16 as a defense attorney, you're supposed 17 to get psychiatric help for your client, 18 you're supposed to get them evaluated, 19 you're supposed to investigate the case, 20 you're supposed to go down and knock on 21 doors and talk to people that have been 22 associated with my client and find out 23 that this young man didn't know he hurt 24 the puppy by throwing him off the six 25 story building. 70 1 Parry 2 And my message for all of you today 3 is the Assigned Counsel Program didn't 4 pay for any of that. They wouldn't pay 5 for any of that and they won't today. I 6 hope I've made an impression. I am 7 nothing else if not dramatic, my wife 8 tells me that every day. 9 There are two sides to everything in 10 life. And I know, every attorney that's 11 come up here the last few minutes has 12 said something to the effect, I realize 13 this is an unpopular cause. Sometimes 14 it doesn't matter. Sometimes it gets 15 down to right and wrong. 16 Now, the cause of the Assigned 17 Counsel is being decided literally as we 18 speak in Albany, New York. Quite 19 frankly, it's out of your hands. The 20 case of Harding in the State of New York 21 is going to decide our problems one way 22 or the other. But the decision was in 23 the hands of County government and to 24 some degree it will remain in the hands 25 of County government. If nothing else 71 1 Parry 2 they have to do what the State tells 3 them. And it is going to cost the 4 people of Onondaga County several 5 million dollars a year that you have not 6 been giving them. And at some point in 7 time quite frankly then write the check. 8 When that time comes I ask you to 9 remember the young man who didn't 10 realize he killed a puppy when he threw 11 a puppy off a six story building. 12 I also ask you to please understand 13 that were it not for the fact that I did 14 some things that your program did not 15 pay for, and I would be glad to take 16 credit for them right now, and were it 17 not for the fact I got a psychiatrist to 18 work on this kid for free, he would 19 still have been in prison. I hope I've 20 made an impression. Thank you very much. 21 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Next we have 22 Jennifer Rosenberg, with Garran Murphy- 23 Babson on deck. 24 JENNIFER ROSENBERG: Hi, my name is 25 Jennifer Rosenberg, I am a local 72 1 Rosenberg 2 attorney. I've practiced for 12 years, 3 I've been on the Assigned Counsel list 4 for nine. Just recently I joined 5 Hiscock Legal Aid. That's what I'm here 6 to talk about today. I'm the only one 7 from Hiscock that's here today because 8 everyone else is fund-raising tonight. 9 So I got out of it because I just got 10 hired and wasn't on the list. 11 But what I wanted to say is we have 12 limited funds. I understand everyone 13 here has limited funds. We have a 14 screener, we have a guy who part of his 15 job is to screen our clients to make 16 sure that they qualify so that we don't 17 abuse our funds. So everyone that we 18 help definitely qualifies. There is no 19 issue about that. 20 Who are the people that we help? 21 Well, we have a program for cancer 22 patients. If you have cancer and you 23 qualify we'll help you with bills, we'll 24 help you with custody agreements to make 25 sure your kids are okay, we'll do power 73 1 Rosenberg 2 of attorney. So if you're in the 3 hospital your bills can be paid. 4 Insurance companies, if they're not 5 paying for your medical stuff, anything 6 like that, we'll help you. Who else do 7 we help? Domestic violence victims. 8 Me, on a daily basis I help domestic 9 violence victims. Just the other day I 10 had a domestic violence victim who she 11 snuck out while her husband went to 12 work. While he was at work we got an 13 order of protection, we got her items 14 out of the house; we didn't get the dog 15 out. So thankfully for VERA House we 16 now have the dog. And that goes back to 17 we don't just handle the legal issues. 18 You know, we also had to get her child 19 into school and safe from dad. Dad has 20 threatened to shoot them, he's 21 threatened to shoot the dog. So we had 22 to get orders of protection to keep him 23 away; we have to keep their address 24 confidential. So a lot of stuff goes 25 through me. So when dad wants to talk 74 1 Rosenberg 2 to the child he calls my office. 3 Who else do we help? Immigration. 4 We have an immigration attorney that 5 refuges come here and Catholic Charities 6 won't help them, we help them. We have 7 also helped on domestic violence cases. 8 I have a client who's a refugee who 9 barely speaks English, whose husband 10 beats and rapes her on a regular basis. 11 She would call the police and she 12 doesn't speak English. So the police 13 would say, okay, see you later. So I 14 gave her my number, and I got calls 15 numerous times in the middle of the 16 night where I had to call the police and 17 explain to them what she was saying, 18 what was going on, what happened. So we 19 got an Order of Protection, we ended up 20 doing a habeas corpus hearing to get her 21 children back. And we're working on a 22 divorce with her. 23 And thankfully Judge Julie Cerio and 24 Thomas Benedetto granted all these 25 orders. Now the kids are safe and mom 75 1 Babson 2 is safe and substantially away from 3 where dad is. So we still are working 4 the divorce, but one thing at a time. 5 We also help out with parole 6 hearings. We help out with appeals. We 7 help out with a lot of things for what 8 little money we have. And like I said, 9 we also do a lot of fund raisers so that 10 we don't entirely depend on the County. 11 Thank you for your time. 12 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Thank you. Garran 13 Murphy-Babson. And on deck is Jose, I 14 think it's Jose Contreras. 15 GARRAN MURPHY-BABSON: I'm Garran 16 Murphy Babson. A little over six months 17 ago my husband and I adopted probably 18 one of the sweetest animals I've ever 19 come to know. Her name is Nala. She 20 was being left for dead, about a year 21 and-a-half ago in a car up in 22 Shoppingtown Mall. She was horribly 23 abused. And fortunately for us and her, 24 the Syracuse Pit Crew rescued her 25 shortly before she was going to die 76 1 Babson 2 from the heat. It was about a 90 degree 3 day. 4 Cuse Pit Crew broke her out of the 5 car. Because it's inside the 6 contractual agreement for Dewitt Animal 7 Hospital, she went to Dewitt. The 8 living conditions for animals in Dewitt 9 are not the greatest. And because Cuse 10 Pit Crew rescued her, they took her 11 under their wing and they kept taking 12 care of her. She had aggression issues 13 because of her abusive background. They 14 believe that she may have been used as a 15 bait animal in dog fighting. 16 They continued to take care of her 17 and before she was being -- she was 18 scheduled to be euthanized at Dewitt. 19 They had her transferred to CNY Humane 20 Association. It looked like she was 21 going to probably be a permanent fixture 22 at the shelter over there, but the Pit 23 Crew continued to work with her, to work 24 through her aggression issues, leash 25 aggression, attacking people when you 77 1 Contreras 2 would take her for walks. And they 3 calmed her down. 4 My husband met her, fell in love 5 with her, she's deaf. We decided to 6 adopt her. The type of training that 7 Cuse Pit Crew does with animals is what 8 they want to bring to the prison. If it 9 wasn't for the Pit Crew this sweet 10 animal would have been destroyed. And 11 many other animals would have been 12 destroyed. This program is going to be 13 great for the prisoners and it's going 14 to save dogs. It's going to save humans 15 and dogs. It's a great program. Thank 16 you. 17 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Thank you. Jose 18 Contreras. With Siamund Brzostowski on 19 deck. 20 JOSE CONTRERAS: Good evening, my 21 name is Jose Contreras. I'm a 15 plus 22 year veteran of the United States Armed 23 Forces. I'm a firm believer everybody 24 has the right to fall. But getting up 25 is where the challenge lies. 78 1 Contreras 2 Everybody has been talking about 3 this program. At the end of the day 4 we're saving two lives. If these people 5 can pretty much benefit from having a 6 life that depends on them. When I found 7 Nina, Nina was beaten, left to die, tied 8 to a fence. A veterinarian in the city, 9 in New York City, he looked at me and he 10 said, you know what, that dog will never 11 make it, it will be better off you put 12 her down. I don't know why still to 13 this day she looks straight into my eyes 14 and the only thing came to my head was: 15 Give me one chance. If I would have 16 listened to that vet I would have never 17 had the best seven years of that dog. 18 I'm a professional truck driver 19 today. She travels with me throughout 20 the nation. Never had a problem. Still 21 to this day she's alive. One chance is 22 what these people need. One chance is 23 what these animals need. I believe that 24 what Cuse Pit Crew is doing is helping 25 two lives in one shot. 79 1 Contreras 2 Yeah, everybody talks about six 3 inmates saving. Let's be more 4 optimistic, let's say 10 inmates at 5 60,000, that's 600,000. In one year? 6 That pays for the program twice. So 7 it's in your hands gentlemen, you are 8 our leaders, we elect you. If this is 9 what you think we deserve, hey, you 10 know, at the end of the day we're saving 11 money. Thank you, very much. 12 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Siamund Brzostowski. 13 Siamund? All right I'll go back over 14 real quick the other two. Melissa Robar. 15 Melissa ever come back? Or Valerie 16 McCarthy? Okay, we've got one speaker 17 left, if anyone else would like to 18 speak. While this last person is going, 19 if they can come up and sign real 20 quickly we'll get you in. We would like 21 to wrap it up. Our last speaker, 22 Mr. Baleno, was our first speaker of the 23 night. I'll give him just two minutes 24 to wrap it up really quick then we'll go 25 from there. 80 1 Baleno 2 JAMES BALENO: Anyone missing a pair 3 of glasses, they're on the podium. 4 Ladies and gentlemen of the Legislature 5 thank you for having the opportunity to 6 add a couple additional comments. Ask 7 you to bear with my about 30 seconds I'm 8 going to be proving a point. 9 Everybody back there that came here 10 for the shelter, this right here is a 11 copy of the adjustment the Legislature 12 suggested. Have any of you picked up a 13 copy of this prior to walking in here 14 tonight? Anybody? Show of hands? One 15 person. 16 Ladies and gentlemen of the 17 Legislature, we've elected you to lead 18 us. I've already told you what my 19 opinions are on the budget. My problem 20 is when people come in here and talk 21 about how this is about the City of 22 Syracuse, it's not. This is the County 23 of Onondaga. I was born here, raised 24 here and by God I love this County. I 25 do not want to see it go down the tubes. 81 1 Baleno 2 As much as I said before I support 3 this program at the penitentiary, I'm 4 glad you all showed up for that. But 5 once again, where are you every month? 6 Yeah, I made my first meeting this month 7 and I'll tell you, it's a heck of an 8 education. I've been going to my 9 village board meetings on a regular basis. 10 It gets a little tiring though to 11 see everybody show up when the cameras 12 are here. I'm standing back up here 13 again, there is no cameras. I tell you, 14 I want this County to go in the right 15 way, and we need to develop certain 16 programs to make it happen. And I have 17 faith. We elected you, please do what's 18 right for this County. Thank you very 19 much again for the second opportunity 20 this evening. And I would like to see 21 some more of you people in the back 22 there including the ones that already 23 left show up at some of the regular 24 meetings. And Mr. Moffett, if anybody 25 talks to him, tell him I said 82 1 Chairman Knapp 2 congratulations, way to go. Thanks very 3 much everybody. 4 CHAIRMAN KNAPP: Anyone else signed 5 in to speak? Okay, at this time I 6 declare the public comment period 7 closed. Would any Legislators like to 8 make any comment? Mr. Chairman? He had 9 to leave. 10 Lastly, this concludes our budget 11 process for 2015. We will be voting on 12 the final budget next Tuesday at 1:00 13 p.m. in these chambers. Again, it's 14 been a long and very very busy process. 15 So one last time, I would like to 16 thank first off all the legislators for 17 their participation and all their hard 18 work. But I would especially like one 19 last time to thank the Legislative 20 Staff, headed by Debbie Maturo, the 21 clerk; Susan Stanczyk our director of 22 legislative analysis and budget review; 23 Katherine French, deputy clerk; Jamie 24 McNamara, assistant clerk; Darcie 25 Lesniak, legislative analyst; James 83 1 Chairman Knapp 2 Mahaney, legislative aide; Bill Kinne, 3 legislative aide, and Kim Memory, 4 legislate executive secretary. 5 All of these folks put in long six 6 and seven day week during these couple 7 months period. And we really appreciate 8 all the work on the citizens of the 9 County's behalf. With that I declare 10 this meeting closed. 11 [Conclusion of Public Hearing]. 12 * * * * 13 C E R T I F I C A T E 14 This is to certify that I am a Certified Shorthand Reporter and Notary 15 Public in and for the State of New York, that I attended and reported the above 16 entitled proceedings, that I have compared the foregoing with my original 17 minutes taken therein and that it is a true and correct transcript thereof and 18 all of the proceedings had therein. 19 _______________________ John F. Drury, CSR, RPR 20 21 22 Dated: October 14, 2014 23 24 25