Transcript of public hearing
Information from Harbor Brook public hearing:
 Responses: Public hearing, Dec 6, 2005
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1 HARBOR BROOK CSO ABATEMENT FACILITIES PLAN
2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
3
4 PUBLIC HEARING in the above matter conducted at
5 the Rosamond Gifford Zoo, Welch Allyn Room, Syracuse, New
6 York, on December 6, 2005 at 6:00 & 7:00 p.m.
7
8
9 PRESENT:
10 Commissioner of OCWEP, RICHARD ELANDER
11
12 JOHN CLARE, Project Manager
13
14 STEVEN MARTIN, Sewer Maintenance Engineer
15
16 SUE MILLER, Deputy Director Lake Improvement
17
18 CHRIS SOMERLOT from Brown & Caldwell Engr Firm
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
0011
1
2
3 INDEX TO SPEAKERS
4 SPEAKER PAGE
5 PUBLIC INFORMATION SESSION (6:15)
6 Commissioner Elander 3
7 Project Manager Clare 10
8 QUESTIONS FROM PUBLIC
9 Robert Oberst 26
10 Larry Young 31
11 Councilor Masterpole 37
12 Jerry O'Connell 39
13
14 PUBLIC HEARING (7:00)
15 Commissioner Elander 43
16 Robert Synakowski 49
17 Bob Oberst 50
18 Salendria Mabrey 52
19 Aggie Lane 52
20 David Pilat 56
21 Legislator Ryan 58
22 Bruce Bauck 64
23
24
25
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1
2 Commissioner
3 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: I'd like to
4 welcome everybody to this evening's public
5 informational meeting and public hearing on
6 the proposed Harbor Brook sewer improvement
7 project. I'm Dick Elander, Commissioner of
8 the county, Onondaga County Department of
9 Water Environment Protection. We have
10 responsibility for all the wastewater, trunk
11 sewers, pump stations, treatment plants in
12 the county, not collection sewers, which in
13 this case those would belong to the city.
14 Let me explain first the agenda for this
15 evening's meeting. And I don't know if some
16 of you were at, we've already had two
17 informational meetings related to the Harbor
18 Brook project a month or six weeks ago.
19 What we're doing tonight is making things a
20 little more formal, although if you were
21 here before and you asked questions those
22 questions are in the permanent record and
23 will be part of the permanent record of the
24 project. And if you did ask questions, if
25 you asked questions, they were included in a
0013
1 Responsiveness Summary and mailed back to
2 Commissioner
3 those folks that were in attendance at the
4 meeting; either of those two public
5 meetings. So they're already on the record
6 and you don't have to do that again.
7 So because this is more formal, we have
8 a court stenographer (court reporter) here
9 tonight, so we also have, courtesy of Sue
10 Miller, a script to follow. So forgive me
11 but I have to read this so that it's
12 verbatim so I don't mess this up.
13 MS. MILLER: It's because of legal
14 things.
15 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: It's a legal
16 thing, not because Sue made us do it.
17 VINCENT ESPOSITO: Try to make it sound
18 natural.
19 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: Very natural. As
20 publicized we have set aside 6 to 7:00 p.m.
21 We didn't start at 6 o'clock because there
22 was nobody here, but we're going to start
23 now, and as people filter in they can take
24 part in the meeting.
25 This is the public informational meeting
0014
1 during which we will describe the Harbor
2 Commissioner
3 Brook project and respond to questions and
4 comments from the public. During the
5 presentation on the project the county will
6 give particular attention to describing any
7 changes in pipe routing and design
8 recommendations that may have taken place
9 since the previous public meetings on the
10 project, which were both held in September.
11 Following the presentation we will open the
12 time up for questions and comments from
13 everybody that's here.
14 Beginning at 7 o'clock we will conduct
15 the formal public hearing on the project at
16 which time we will receive formal testimony
17 in written or spoken form from anybody
18 wishing to do so.
19 The purpose of the Harbor Brook Sewer
20 Improvement Project is to eliminate or
21 substantially decrease the negative impact
22 of 18 existing combined sewer overflow
23 discharge points along Harbor Brook. The
24 project includes two regional treatment and
25 storage facilities, five underground
0015
1 floatables control structures, upgrading of
2 Commissioner
3 two existing wastewater pump stations and
4 installation of pipelines to transport
5 combined flow to the two proposed treatment
6 and storage facilities.
7 The sites identified for the treatment
8 and storage facilities are proposed on
9 vacant land along Amy Street near Grand
10 Avenue and Delaware Street, that's one
11 location; and the second one is on vacant
12 land on State Fair Boulevard between
13 Hiawatha Boulevard and West Genesee Street.
14 Those properties will be acquired for the
15 project.
16 The entire project must be completed and
17 operational by January 1, 2012 under the
18 federal court order. That seems like a long
19 time but time goes by so quickly we really
20 need to get going on these projects to meet
21 that schedule.
22 Design of the facilities and the entire
23 project is scheduled to be completed by the
24 spring of 2007, year and-a-half from now.
25 Following design, construction is estimated
0016
1 to take about two years after that.
2 Commissioner
3 The details of the project and reason-
4 able alternatives and sites are contained in
5 the Draft Facilities Plan and the Draft
6 Environmental Information Document and are
7 consistent with the Amended Consent Judgment
8 and the State Environmental Quality Review
9 Act.
10 The Draft Facilities Plan has been
11 marked as Exhibit A, and the Draft
12 Environmental Information Document has been
13 marked Exhibit B. And both Exhibits A and B
14 are received as part of the record of these
15 proceedings. And they both exist on that
16 table in the back if you would like to see
17 them. Incidentally there is other copies of
18 the Responsiveness Summary that I described
19 earlier if anybody wants to take a copy.
20 The Draft Facilities Plan and Draft
21 Environmental Information Document are
22 prepared by the county and submitted to the
23 state Department of Environmental
24 Conservation and the EPA, were submitted on
25 August 22, 2005. These documents form the
0017
1 basis of the proposed action and are the
2 Commissioner
3 subject of this meeting and tonight's public
4 hearing.
5 Copies of these documents including maps
6 of the proposed project area have and
7 continue to be available for review on the
8 county's website at www.ongov.net. Just
9 click on Onondaga Lake when you see that.
10 Or go to www.lake.onondaga.ny.us; and at the
11 following libraries: Mundy Branch Library,
12 Hazard Branch Library and Kinchen Central
13 Library at the Galleries.
14 Written comments may also be submitted
15 by mail to John Clare, Project Manager,
16 Onondaga County Department of Water
17 Environment Protection, 650 Hiawatha
18 Boulevard West, Syracuse, New York, 13204, or
19 via electronic mail to johnclare@ongov.net,
20 and we'll take those until January 6th.
21 Now don't get concerned that we're going
22 through this too quickly, all this
23 information we can make available to you
24 again if you ask, we'll be glad to give you
25 the addresses that we have.
0018
1 A transcript of the public information
2 Commissioner
3 meeting and the hearing, all written
4 comments and responsiveness summaries
5 compiled as a result of these meetings or
6 the hearing will be part of the county's
7 environmental review and the site
8 acquisition process and will also be
9 provided to the USEPA for use and
10 consideration in the preparation of
11 environmental findings pursuant to the
12 National Environmental Policy Act, that's
13 NEPA, as part of the county's application
14 for federal financial assistance.
15 Copies of the Responsiveness Summary for
16 the previous public information meetings
17 held on September 14th and 15th were
18 compiled and copies sent to participants in
19 those meetings as well as placed in the
20 libraries and on the website. And that's
21 the yellow document I was referring to.
22 We have several representatives of the
23 county and our engineers here, if you have
24 any questions tonight we're all here to try
25 to answer those questions. John Clare is
0019
1 our project manager. And John is going to
2 Project Manager
3 give an overview of the contents of the
4 facilities plan in a minute.
5 We have Steve Martin who's our sewer
6 maintenance engineer. Sue Miller, who is
7 the Deputy Director of Lake Improvement
8 Project Office, and myself are here from the
9 county. And we have representatives from
10 CDM/C&S here who are the design engineers
11 for the conveyance portion of the project.
12 With that I'd ask John to present an
13 overview and describe any changes and
14 recommendations since the September meetings.
15 John.
16 MR. CLARE: Thank you, Dick. Good
17 evening. I'm just going to provide a very
18 brief overview of the project. I'm not sure
19 whether any of the people here were at the
20 previous informational meetings or not. So
21 I'm going to go through just quickly a
22 description of the project again. And there
23 have been some changes in conveyance
24 alignment since those meetings on September
25 14th and 15th. And one of the purposes of
0020
1 this meeting tonight was to go through those
2 Project Manager
3 conveyance alignment changes and give an
4 opportunity for anybody to give us some
5 feedback on those.
6 I'll start with just the general area;
7 the Harbor Brook area is a very large area.
8 It goes basically from Velasko Road down
9 near the Western Lights area up to Onondaga
10 Lake covering a large section of the west
11 side of the city. There are 18 permitted
12 overflows, combined sewer overflows along
13 Harbor Brook. That's what these little
14 black triangles are, if you can see them
15 from here, each one of those is a combined
16 sewer overflow. That when we have wet
17 weather conditions such as heavy rains and
18 snow melts, the existing combined sewer
19 system does exceed its capacity. And these
20 are reliever points that were designed in
21 there many many years ago so that we don't
22 have flooding in the streets or in
23 basements.
24 The only problem with today is, with the
25 Clean Water Act, when you have a combined
0021
1 sewer overflow it's a combination of
2 Project Manager
3 stormwater and sanitary waste and it does
4 create problems with bacteria and other
5 floatables, they get into Harbor Brook,
6 eventually into Onondaga Lake. And that is
7 a violation of the Clean Water Act
8 standards, and that's what this project is
9 here to handle or cure.
10 With the Facility Plan that we did, we
11 started by looking at different options for
12 solving this problem. And one of the things
13 we did was we looked at numerous types of
14 technologies, such as sewer separation,
15 storage, combined or overflow retention
16 facilities.
17 Within the Facility Plan there is
18 probably about 10 or 12 different types of
19 technologies that were evaluated; floatables
20 control facilities, all the technologies
21 that are proven that have been -- that have
22 worked in other parts of the country were
23 evaluated by our consultant Brown & Caldwell,
24 the Facilities Plan, and were evaluated.
25 Based on that evaluation their feeling
0022
1 was, is that a facility that would combine
2 Project Manager
3 storage with a vortex style facility that
4 would store, and in heaviest rainfalls treat
5 combined sewage and then disinfect it before
6 it is discharged to Harbor Brook was one of
7 the best technologies and the most cost
8 effective technology.
9 Once they selected that technology they
10 had to look at different sites of where
11 these facilities could be placed. And what
12 this chart represents is all the different
13 sites that were evaluated as part of the
14 facilities plan from one end of the Harbor
15 Brook area to the other. There were about
16 15 different sites.
17 A number of the sites that were looked
18 at were eliminated very quickly due to size.
19 Some of the sites were very good for a
20 floatables control facility, that we do have
21 five of those recommended. And other sites
22 were evaluated for what we call the regional
23 treatment facilities, as Mr. Elander said
24 there is two of them. One that's generally
25 in this area, which is the Delaware and
0023
1 Wilbur Avenue area, the other is up near,
2 Project Manager
3 closer to the lake and near - on State Fair
4 Boulevard between West Genesee and Hiawatha.
5 Basically it came down to two sites in
6 each area for the regional treatment
7 facilities. We selected the site which in
8 the Facility Plan is referred to as Site 10.
9 Versus Site 11, which is right across the
10 street from it, behind that stone wall;
11 that's owned by the state. We looked at
12 these two sites very carefully.
13 Site 10 just came, was felt to be a
14 better site for a couple of reasons. One is
15 that the state owned site, Site 11 behind
16 the stone wall, is within the 100 year
17 floodplain which would require that the
18 facility to be built up quite a bit and
19 would cost more. And in addition to that
20 there is a 48 inch city water main, one of
21 the main supply lines for the city that runs
22 right through the middle of that site that
23 would make the site much more difficult and
24 much more expensive to build on, to avoid
25 that and support that during construction.
0024
1 So with those two things, they were both
2 Project Manager
3 vacant sites, there is nothing on them, it
4 was felt that Site 10, which is under
5 private ownership, there is two different
6 owners there, would be a preferable site for
7 the facility.
8 Getting to what we call the lower basin,
9 up closer to the lake, we look at what was
10 called Site 5 versus Site 4. Site 5 is a
11 site that's next to the fire training
12 facility, between the fire training facility
13 and the Pontiac dealership. Site 4 is an
14 area that's just west of Pensabene's Casa
15 Grande, between that and the NAPA store,
16 which is a wooden vacant lot in that area.
17 Basically when we looked at Site 5 the
18 biggest problem with Site 5 was that there
19 is a history of soil contamination of PCB
20 contamination on that site that we felt
21 would require very expensive remediation.
22 Also the site is a little bit further away
23 from the Brook which would require
24 connections back and forth to the Brook that
25 would be more expensive across State Fair
0025
1 Boulevard. This site here is open, we've
2 Project Manager
3 got flexibility.
4 One of the things that was brought up at
5 the last meeting was to look at using both
6 the further western end of the site, which
7 we are investigating the facility further
8 away from Pensabene's, it is being looked
9 at. We are going to be doing soil borings
10 at both ends of the site to see if there is
11 any difference in buildability or
12 constructability rather. So that's
13 basically the reason we selected the site.
14 We went through a laborious process, came up
15 - and it's really an objective set of
16 criteria to determine what the best site for
17 these facilities would be.
18 These are just aerials that show a
19 little more detail. This is again, the
20 upper basin site, this is the old Syracuse
21 Developmental Center, Fowler high school.
22 We have conveyance lines that come from
23 the retention basin down near Velasko Road,
24 and in the original plan they were coming up
25 Rowland Avenue about four or five blocks up
0026
1 from the retention basin all along Rowland
2 Project Manager
3 Avenue to Herriman and then cutting north on
4 Herriman up to Grand Avenue.
5 What these conveyance lines do is they
6 will intercept the flow from the combined
7 sewers, combined sewer overflows. Before
8 they go into the creek there would be what's
9 called the new regulator structure put into
10 the ground, like a large manhole structure,
11 then when the overflows occurred, rather
12 than going to the outflow of the creek they
13 would be intercepted by this new conveyance
14 pipe and be brought up to the regional
15 treatment facility.
16 The pipe will serve as storage, as well
17 as the treatment facility serve as storage.
18 These facilities are designed to handle up
19 to a one year storm, and that's what's
20 required by the Amended Consent Judgment.
21 If you have a storm or wet weather event
22 that exceeds that flow then the facility
23 would take the flow through the vortex units,
24 which is a centrifugal type unit, to remove
25 the solids; it would go into the
0027
1 disinfection chamber where it would be
2 Project Manager
3 treated, chlorinated, dechlorinated before
4 it's released to the Brook. That happens
5 only during storms that exceed the one year
6 event.
7 These facilities do not operate like the
8 sewage treatment plant, every single day.
9 They only operate during wet weather events
10 intermittently. There is about maybe 50 to
11 60 overflow events right now on an average
12 annual basis, on an average rain year. So
13 on an average year these facilities would
14 only operate about 50 or 60 times a year.
15 It's not like living next to a sewage
16 treatment plant. They're totally enclosed.
17 They have odor control systems. And they
18 will have sound insulation as well. The
19 only major sound inside when they are
20 operating would be some pump systems that
21 lift the flow into the vortex units when
22 necessary.
23 In the middle area near Fowler high
24 school there is four floatables control
25 facilities. These are what we call
0028
1 mechanical bar-rack type facilities that
2 Project Manager
3 just go in the ground, you don't see them.
4 These are very small overflow points. The
5 flow that comes out of those is extremely
6 small. So that the floatables control
7 facility will just intercept that flow, take
8 all of the floating debris and other things
9 out of the combined sewer overflow and
10 before it gets into Harbor Brook and into
11 the lake.
12 As we move down we get into what we call
13 basically the lower basin area. And just to
14 orient you here, this is Frazer school here,
15 this is West Genesee Street, this is the
16 railroad tracks, and just above here would
17 be Geddes Street. The system over here
18 picks up right around - I believe that's
19 Richmond, Richmond Avenue, there is a pump
20 station there, would take the flow.
21 The previous plan would take the flow
22 across Park Avenue into West Genesee Street,
23 up West Genesee Street, down Eureka Avenue
24 and then go in the back lots to where the
25 proposed treatment facilities would be on
0029
1 State Fair Boulevard.
2 Project Manager
3 What I'd like to just do now is just
4 show, we started the preliminary design for
5 this facility, and as you start preliminary
6 designs and you get a different set of eyes
7 looking at these things you come up with
8 some very good ideas. We've come up with
9 some changes in the - proposed changes in
10 the conveyance lines.
11 I'll start again with the upper basin
12 back up near Fowler high school, the
13 retention area. Where I said before the
14 plan was showing it coming up Rowland, I
15 know this may be hard to see but you can
16 come up to see it a little later, we were
17 coming up Rowland about four blocks to
18 Herriman and then coming over.
19 What we're proposing at this point and
20 it will result in less disruption to people
21 in this area, the Skunk City area, is
22 instead of going up Rowland we would cut up
23 at Holden Avenue and then use Hartson rather
24 than Rowland. So we would be cutting off
25 one block. So we would be eliminating all
0030
1 of the conveyance line between Hartson and
2 Project Manager
3 Herriman on Rowland and we would be putting
4 the conveyance line on Hartson there,
5 between Holden and Herriman.
6 This would shorten not only these lines
7 that have to feed from the combined sewers
8 in, it makes the line about 500 feet shorter.
9 It reduces impact on about 18 households
10 that would - were having construction done
11 in front of their houses before. And based
12 on our cost estimates it's going to save the
13 county about $600,000 in cost for the
14 conveyance. So it looked to us like a very
15 good idea to pursue as an alternate
16 conveyance line with less disruption to
17 people in that neighborhood.
18 People along Holden there will be a
19 little more disruption for some of the
20 households there that didn't have it before
21 but there is going to be much less for the
22 people on Rowland and on one block of
23 Herriman.
24 As we get down to the lower basin, down
25 near the West Genesee Street area, again you
0031
1 can see the red line that's going up Eureka
2 Project Manager
3 and taking that back lot through the State
4 Fair Boulevard. What the proposed
5 adjustment is, is instead of taking it all
6 the way around here is to have it go right
7 down the 900 block of Park Avenue, and then
8 across West Genesee Street to State Fair
9 Boulevard from Park Avenue.
10 This change will result in about an
11 impact to the same number of households.
12 Because the household, or the businesses and
13 households in this area would no longer be
14 impacted. And one of our problems we we're
15 really looking at with this, Eureka Avenue
16 is such a narrow street, and it's a dead end
17 street and this is a fairly good sized pipe
18 that is coming down here it would really be
19 closing off this whole street and access
20 would have been a real problem.
21 Park Avenue is a much wider street and
22 it will be able to handle the pipe we fell
23 much better. It won't require a full street
24 closing, we feel we can keep lanes open on
25 Park Avenue while this construction is going
0032
1 on. We also feel with this change we might
2 Project Manager
3 be able to avoid having to upgrade one of
4 the pump stations that we're going to
5 upgrade as a new wet weather pump station
6 and just upgrade it as a dry weather pump
7 station, which will be much less expensive.
8 And we feel we're even looking at the
9 possibility of eliminating this pump station
10 up here.
11 This change, again alone would save the
12 county about a projected $830,000. This is,
13 you know, you can just see from it it's much
14 less conveyance pipe, more direct route and
15 it would be a substantial cost savings to us.
16 The other disruption that's avoided is
17 to, about a block and-a-half on West Genesee
18 Street, it's some large businesses, Alan
19 Byer Volvo, Enterprise Rent-A-Car, that
20 would have that major construction right in
21 front of their facilities.
22 We aren't sure yet and we're still
23 looking at how we are going to, as we get
24 down to the bottom of Park Avenue, just
25 exactly where we're going to cut across.
0033
1 One of the things we're looking at very
2 Commissioner
3 closely is we don't want to impact Sacred
4 Heart school. It would either have to be
5 done at a time when school is out or maybe
6 there is ways we can get across before we
7 get down to the school and the church. So
8 those are two things we are still looking at
9 and investigating and brain-storming with
10 our design engineers at this point.
11 But those are the two major changes that
12 have been made since our last public
13 information meeting in September. And at
14 this point I would just open it up for
15 questions.
16 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: Not yet, in a
17 minute. I'd like John and Steve to take a
18 seat up here facing the audience so that
19 we're prepared to answer any questions that
20 you have.
21 One thing I would like to point out,
22 John made a point of telling you that this
23 is going to save the county $600,000 and
24 this is going to save $800,000. It's
25 important for you to remember that we are
0034
1 the county, not the three of us guys, we are
2 Commissioner
3 the county. Because we are all paying for
4 this. There is only about a third of this
5 entire $450 million project, which is the
6 whole Amended Consent Judgment, that there
7 is going to be federal aid for. Hopefully
8 there will be another third that's state
9 aid. Which again is still us, just out of a
10 different pocket. But the county is going
11 to have to come up with somewhere in the
12 neighborhood of $150,000 -- I mean $150
13 million to pay for this. And when I say the
14 county I mean all of us. So every time we
15 can save a million bucks here or $600,000
16 here or there that's all to the benefit of
17 all of us.
18 Again, we'll take some questions. We're
19 going to have about 20 minutes, we would
20 like to start the public hearing on time.
21 We've only got a couple folks that have
22 signed that said they would like to speak at
23 the public hearing but I know there is some
24 questions you want to do. And I'd like to
25 remind you that John is recording all of
0035
1 this, so when you ask a question please
2 Oberst Q&A
3 state your name and your address so that we
4 have that on the record so that we can show
5 the authorities and the regulatory agencies
6 in the future that we're, you know, actually
7 dealing with people that live here in the
8 neighborhood.
9 With that let's open it up to any
10 questions you might have. And I'll give
11 this back to these guys (the mike).
12 Somebody must have questions.
13 BOB OBERST: Bob Oberst, 201 Morton
14 Street, Syracuse. I didn't know if this is
15 part of the formal hearing questions or
16 should I ask them now, but.
17 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: Either way it's
18 part of the formal record.
19 Q. (Oberst) Well there were four issues
20 that we talked about among ourselves
21 connected to these projects and one of them
22 for example, is with the maps. It shows
23 that one of the reconstructed pipelines is
24 to go through Fowler high school across
25 their football field. And is there any
0036
1 funds available to redo that field connected
2 Oberst - Martin
3 with this? I mean obviously you're going to
4 dig a hole across their field but would
5 there be any extra money set aside to repair
6 that field or make it better than it is?
7 A. (Steve Martin) Bob, we have met at
8 least twice now with the city school
9 district to talk about their future plans
10 for Fowler high school. And they do have an
11 architect's rendering and they do have some
12 hope and expectations that they're going to
13 be doing some improvements at Fowler as part
14 of the $600 million capital project that is
15 going to happen, from what I understand that
16 is now stalled at the state level.
17 In any event, they are looking at a new
18 or a new synthetic turf field and a whole
19 new athletic complex, perhaps in a different
20 orientation and in a different part of the
21 campus. They're looking at some building
22 expansion to the school, they're looking at
23 some repairs to stop the persistent
24 settlement of the floors on the east facing
25 side of the building. So they have a lot on
0037
1 their plate as well.
2 Oberst - Martin
3 We're coordinating very carefully with
4 them because we know that any replacement of
5 the Harbor Brook interceptor across that
6 property is going to be disruptive.
7 In addition to that the Harbor Brook
8 conveyance itself is right there and very
9 close to the school building itself. And
10 that will likely require some attention,
11 some spot repairs and perhaps even some
12 greater improvement as part of this, as a
13 companion part of this overall project.
14 So we are coordinating with the city
15 school district and making every effort to
16 cooperate and coordinate our activities so
17 as not to get in each others way.
18 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: Did you want to
19 address the other three items?
20 Q. (Oberst) Right, the other three. Well,
21 just down the road from there the Amy Street
22 improvements, our concern too, we mentioned
23 at TNT meetings, was there any possibility
24 in removing, there is two houses right next
25 to that site and an empty bar. And the
0038
1 suggestion would be that that could be made
2 Oberst - Commissioner/Project Manager
3 a park area of some kind again, with help
4 from the county to improve the neighborhood
5 and improve that corner of the neighborhood?
6 A. (Commissioner) We're certainly
7 discussing that very seriously. We're not,
8 as John indicated, the design is really just
9 starting the final design. What we're
10 trying to do tonight is wrap up the
11 Facilities Plan. And those things are
12 really part of the final design. But we're
13 very seriously discussing that possibility.
14 MR. CLARE: I would like to add to it,
15 just about every meeting we've been to, that
16 issue, whether you brought it up or someone
17 else, has been a persistent issue that's
18 been requested. So I think from that
19 standpoint it probably has a lot of merit as
20 something that should be done.
21 Q. I think the importance of, you know,
22 we're trying to solve a problem, it's a
23 sewage problem, but if we can also help the
24 neighborhood out that's the beauty of any of
25 these things.
0039
1 And right along, the next item would be
2 Oberst - Commissioner
3 the sidewalks along Grand Avenue. This is
4 something that people in the neighborhood
5 have talked about for a real long time
6 because of the neighborhood people wanting
7 to go to Western Lights and there is no
8 sidewalk there now, and it's not just
9 wheelchairs, bicycles, just people walking.
10 It would be a great help if somehow that
11 could be meshed into this program.
12 A. (Commissioner) That again is being
13 very seriously looked into. Nothing has
14 been finalized but we understand that's a
15 concern to a lot of people and we're going
16 to see what we can do about that.
17 Q. Okay, so the Number 4 thing is a little
18 less, maybe less certain, but it was
19 mentioned to me that folks were really
20 concerned about the pool closing at Frazer.
21 And one of the pipelines run right at the
22 edge of the Frazer property.
23 And again, knowing the county can't do
24 everything but if it was the - sort of help
25 to encourage the city to work on that
0040
1 project. Obviously it costs a lot of money
2 Oberst - Commissioner
3 to maintain a pool and everything, but you
4 see the pipeline is right along the edge of
5 Frazer Park and not too far from where that
6 pool is. But if the county could in some
7 way spur the city to, by offering help,
8 somehow get the pool back in operation,
9 that's a very needy neighborhood.
10 MR. ESPOSITO: Got a water source there.
11 MR. OBERST: So I didn't know if that
12 could fit into the plan or not.
13 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: Again, that has
14 been discussed to some degree. Frankly
15 administratively that's not as easy to do as
16 some of the other things.
17 MR. OBERST: I understand.
18 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: And we're trying
19 to have a dialogue with the city.
20 MR. OBERST: All right, thank you.
21 MR. YOUNG: My name is Larry Young, I
22 live at 910 Park Avenue. So I was very
23 surprised of course when I got the mailings
24 from the county showing that the pipeline
25 was switched from Second Street down to Park
0041
1 Avenue. As I look at the map from the
2 Young - Commissioner
3 intersection of Park Avenue and Sackett
4 Street, it looks like there was a straight
5 line that connects down Sackett Street
6 across West Genesee Street and between a
7 couple of businesses down to where the red
8 line picks up. And it seems to me that that
9 is a much more logical route for the
10 pipeline to take.
11 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: This blue line
12 you're referring to?
13 MR. YOUNG: From here I can't tell.
14 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: The only line
15 that exists right here is the Brook itself.
16 It's underground but it's the Brook.
17 MR. YOUNG: But what I'm saying is that
18 there is a route there that's already
19 established that's much shorter than Park
20 Avenue.
21 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you put up here
22 under the new proposed one the alternative.
23 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: The lower unit?
24 Yes, right here.
25 MR. CLARE: Next to Alan Byer Volvo.
0042
1 MR. YOUNG: And it appears that straight
2 Young - Commissioner
3 right-of-way is not the issue because
4 they're willing to go behind properties on
5 the original plan. So it seems to me that
6 that kind of a straight line would have much
7 less impact on the residents of the area.
8 MR. CLARE: If you want to talk on that,
9 when we replaced the Harbor Brook
10 interceptor sewers a little while ago.G35.
11
12 MR. YOUNG: I have a follow up question.
13 MS. MILLER: Can't hear back here.
14 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: We'll answer both
15 of them.
16 MR. YOUNG: How soon after the design
17 phase would the construction of the pipes be
18 done? Because that's what of course is
19 going to affect our house.
20 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: There won't be
21 any construction done on this project at all
22 until some time in 2007.
23 MR. YOUNG: Right, but how soon after
24 the design?
25 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: It's going to be
0043
1 a two to three year construction project.
2 Young - Commissioner
3 Any particular portion of it like on Park
4 Avenue, we don't know now.
5 MR. YOUNG: But are the pipes done first
6 or the treatment facility, you know, which
7 order is that going to be done?
8 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: There will be a
9 lot of overlap. The treatment facility will
10 probably be started first, but that's going
11 to take longer. But we're trying to
12 minimize the construction disruption really
13 all over the city because we have similar
14 projects in other parts of the city. And we
15 can about make it look like World War III
16 down there, you know, if we're not really
17 careful. So we will have a schedule in the
18 future but I would just be wild guessing if
19 I tried to tell you right now.
20 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will you mail that
21 out?
22 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: The question was,
23 would you mail that schedule out? Yes, we
24 will.
25 MR. YOUNG: The question about the
0044
1 routing of the pipe?
2 Steven Martin
3 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: Yes, we will.
4 MR. MARTIN: To try to address this
5 without getting too long winded, the
6 original Harbor Brook interceptor followed
7 generally the alignment of this proposed
8 pipe here, and then did follow Harbor Brook;
9 it was constructed around 1920. It settled
10 in a couple of locations because the
11 technology didn't exist at that time to put
12 in deep pile foundations to support it
13 properly.
14 And from what we know there is actually
15 some, there are some poor soil conditions
16 and some contaminated soil conditions that
17 exist in tandem right through this area.
18 It's a peat bog, old peat bog that follows
19 the Harbor Brook stream corridor.
20 So when the original, the existing
21 Harbor Brook interceptor sewer was replaced
22 in 1980 by the county from the end of
23 Liberty Street here all the way to State
24 Fair Boulevard it did take this line along
25 Eureka Street in order to avoid this area
0045
1 and the subsurface conditions that existed.
2 Steven Martin
3 At that time we were fairly certain we
4 would wind up having to own a Volvo
5 dealership as part of the deal; and we
6 didn't want any part of that. But we will
7 look at this route again with our engineers
8 and evaluate it and comment on it.
9 MR. CLARE: Are there any other
10 questions?
11 MS. LANE: Is this part of the public
12 hearing?
13 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: No, the public
14 hearing is going to start in five minutes.
15 MR. CLARE: Are there any other
16 questions for the public information
17 session?
18 COUNCILMAN MASTERPOLE: Will you be
19 answering questions during the public
20 hearing or no?
21 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: What we've asked
22 you to do Marty, is indicate on a card yes
23 or no whether you want to make a statement
24 or not and we'll be making those up front.
25 COUNCILMAN MASTERPOLE: You won't be
0046
1 responding to the statements in the public
2 Councilor Masterpole
3 hearing correct, or you will be?
4 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: Don't plan on it.
5 It's to gather information.
6 COUNCILMAN MASTERPOLE: I'd rather ask a
7 question now then. I guess that answers my
8 question, rather than wait. Martin
9 Masterpole 344 Coleridge Avenue. Thanks for
10 coming and sending out the information this
11 of course is very useful. We know, we've
12 been together many times with this issue at
13 Midland Avenue and of course now it's in my
14 district, in my neighborhood, everything.
15 I guess there is two questions I have.
16 One is, you mentioned that the land on - I
17 forget, Site 10 I believe you said is the
18 proposal now.
19 MR. CLARE: Amy Street site, yep.
20 COUNCILMAN MASTERPOLE: Right, that's
21 not owned by the county at this time?
22 MR. CLARE: No.
23 COUNCILMAN MASTERPOLE: I guess my
24 question is (A) who owns it and how does the
25 county intend on getting it? And for a
0047
1 follow-up question to that is, when we went
2 Councilor Masterpole
3 through the Midland Avenue, I guess debate
4 for lack of a better word, one of the main
5 concerns with going from a vortex swirler
6 which we all know was a contentious issue,
7 to storage was amount of space that we had
8 at the Midland Avenue site.
9 It would seem to me that both Site 10,
10 Amy Street site, and as well as Pensabene's
11 site for lack of a better word is, there is
12 plenty of space I would think or more at
13 both, and is there a possibility of
14 switching to what the neighbors have asked
15 for numerous times, back to storage as
16 opposed to - I'm going to say lesser quality
17 swirlers, but I know that's an argument that
18 we'll have forever.
19 MR. CLARE: The property, as I said, the
20 property is privately owned. It is actually
21 where the facility would sit there is two
22 different owners. The section closest to
23 Delaware or Wilbur, as you will, at that
24 point right up to the Amy Street
25 intersection, right along that corner is
0048
1 owned by a local church. They have been
2 Project Manager
3 contacted; it was probably donated to them
4 many many years ago. They have said to me
5 at least that they're very excited about
6 selling that property because it is taxable,
7 because it's not being used for religious
8 purposes. So they're very much in favor of
9 selling the property.
10 The back side of the property is owned
11 according to tax records by a company called
12 J T Properties. That we have been in
13 contact with and told them that we are
14 interested. They're very aware of this
15 because we have done testing and we've been
16 notifying them prior to testing.
17 So it is both privately owned. The
18 method that the county intends to use to
19 acquire it would be to commission appraisals,
20 to negotiate the acquisition of those
21 properties if at all possible, and only go
22 to the process of eminent domain if
23 absolutely necessary.
24 MR. O'CONNELL: I'm Jerry 0'Connell, I'm
25 one of the J T Property owners. The
0049
1 property on the Amy Street, how much of that
2 O'Connell - Project Manager
3 do you think you would be taking in the back
4 side?
5 MR. CLARE: Not all of it. We wouldn't
6 be looking to take all of it here. We would
7 be looking to subdivide it. We're in the
8 process right now of doing a survey to
9 determine exactly what the property
10 boundaries would be that we would need. And
11 that we would be commissioning an appraisal
12 based on that.
13 Q. (O'Connell) So the only thing that
14 would be on that property would be the
15 underground sewer line?
16 A. (Clare) No. On the back part of the
17 property? Yes.
18 Q. On the Reverend Grace property would be
19 the building?
20 A. The building would be both on the
21 church's property and part of your property.
22 Q. It would be?
23 A. Yes.
24 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: We need to
25 start --
0050
1 MS. LANE: There was a second part to
2 Commissioner
3 his question.
4 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: I'm going to try
5 to answer that, okay. I told you I would
6 answer. We also need to start the public
7 hearing on time.
8 COUNCILMAN MASTERPOLE: Understandable.
9 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: We evaluated a
10 number of technologies again. The engineers
11 recommended and we believe they're correct
12 in recommending the swirl concentrator type
13 of operation for both of these facilities.
14 We don't believe -- it's more than just a
15 space issue related to the storage. We've
16 talked about this a number of times. When a
17 storage tank fills up it's full. If the
18 rains continue you get an untreated discharge
19 out the discharge pipe. We don't think
20 that's a good thing. The county executive
21 doesn't think it's a good thing, the
22 legislature doesn't think it's a good thing,
23 we don't think it's a good thing for the
24 area.
25 So what we're trying to do tonight is,
0051
1 in the Facilities Plan it recommends the
2 Commissioner - O'Connell
3 swirl concentrators. The DEC has accepted
4 that, they have not approved the plan yet
5 because we've got to go through these public
6 hearings and so on. Any comments that are
7 made relative, your comments tonight will be
8 on the record, any comments that we get from
9 anybody else will be on the record. And the
10 state will use that in their review and
11 subsequent decision relative to the
12 Facilities Plan. Yes? Quick.
13 JERRY O'CONNELL: Quick one. What do
14 you feel happens to the balance of our
15 property. We have two commercial buildings
16 on the Grand Avenue side, we have the
17 Colonial Laundromat there and we have the
18 old M&T Muffler (phonetic) building that's a
19 garage there, what if by doing this causes
20 the depreciation of our property?
21 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: My personal
22 opinion is that with the exception of where
23 we physically have to be on the property
24 what we're doing will absolutely not
25 depreciate that property. If you compare
0052
1 what is there now as to what we're going to
2 Pub Hrng (Commissioner)
3 have there, there is no reason why what
4 we're doing should depreciate it. If
5 anything the existing outfalls, CSOs that
6 will be eliminated can do nothing but
7 enhance the property.
8 JERRY O'CONNELL: Thank you.
9 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: I've got to start
10 the public hearing. We talked about this
11 when we - we're doing things a little more
12 formal tonight, so that we comply with the
13 regulatory requirements. I'd like to thank
14 everybody again for coming. I'd like to
15 thank you for your questions. We can answer
16 any questions that you want to ask
17 informally. When we get through with the
18 public hearing we can talk about any of the
19 boards or any of the plans that you would
20 like to talk about afterwards. We're here
21 and we'll take the time to do that with no
22 problem at all.
23 Right now according to my watch it's
24 about 7:02. I would like to call the public
25 hearing for the Harbor Brook CSO Abatement
0053
1 Project to order. As I said, again for you
2 Pub Hrng (Commissioner)
3 new comers, my name is Dick Elander, I'm
4 Commissioner of the county's Department of
5 Water Environment Protection, and I will
6 serve as the Hearing Officer for this public
7 hearing.
8 As indicated this transcript of this
9 hearing and the public information meeting
10 we just concluded will go to the state DEC
11 and the US Environmental Protective Agency.
12 All those wishing to speak at the hearing
13 have been asked to fill out a form available
14 from Sue at the table and I have some here.
15 And we'll call on people from the cards
16 received.
17 It is necessary for me to remind you the
18 purpose of this hearing to inform the public
19 of the public use to be served by the
20 proposed Harbor Brook Sewer Improvement
21 Project, the impact of the proposed project
22 on the environment and county residents, and
23 to receive testimony from residents and
24 other interested parties on the project.
25 Any person may present an oral or written
0054
1 statement at the hearing.
2 Pub Hrng (Commissioner)
3 The Harbor Brook Sewer Improvement
4 Project is required by the Federal Consent
5 Judgment, the ACJ, issued January 20, 1998
6 concerning Onondaga Lake. The purpose of
7 the Harbor Brook Sewer Improvement Project
8 is to eliminate 18 existing combined sewer
9 overflow discharge points along Harbor
10 Brook. The project includes two regional
11 treatment and storage facilities, five
12 underground floatables control structures,
13 upgrading of two pump stations and
14 installation of pipelines to transport flow
15 to the treatment and storage facilities.
16 The two sites identified for the
17 proposed facilities are located on vacant
18 land along Amy Street near Grand Avenue and
19 Delaware Street, and on vacant land again on
20 State Fair Boulevard between Hiawatha
21 Boulevard and West Genesee Street. These
22 vacant properties will be acquired for this
23 project and owners of those properties were
24 notified by certified mail of this project,
25 its impact on their properties, and this
0055
1 hearing.
2 Pub Hrng (Commissioner)
3 As required under the ACJ the entire
4 project must be completed and operational by
5 January 1, 2012. Design of the facilities
6 is scheduled to be completed by the spring
7 of 2007. And following design, construction
8 is estimated to take about two years. And
9 as I indicated earlier, any residents and
10 businesses expected to be affected by the
11 construction, we will notify you ahead of
12 time of this schedule, as we said.
13 For those of you that weren't here
14 earlier in the meeting, the documents, the
15 Facilities Plan is in the back, the
16 environmental impact statement is in the
17 back. Anybody that asks questions at either
18 of the two Harbor Brook informational
19 meetings that took place in September have
20 received a Responsiveness Summary which
21 includes their questions and the answers
22 from the county. There are extra copies
23 back here if anybody wants them that did not
24 receive them. This is also part of the
25 record. So anybody that made a statement or
0056
1 asked a question before really doesn't need
2 Pub Hrng (Commissioner)
3 to do that again tonight. It's all in the
4 record that will be included to the DEC.
5 This evening's hearing was publicized
6 with legal notices placed in the Syracuse
7 Post Standard, appearing on Friday, October
8 21, 2005 and in the state Environmental
9 Notice Bulletin in the November 2, 2005
10 issue.
11 Notice of the hearing were direct mailed
12 to nearly 900 persons and businesses in the
13 project area as well as local officials and
14 other interested parties. Display ads were
15 purchased and run in the Scotsman Press on
16 November 27th in the Bellevue Geddes edition
17 and in the Syracuse Post Standard on
18 Wednesday, November 30, 2005.
19 News media was informed, and local
20 environmental reporter Mark Weiner ran an
21 article on the hearing in his November 16th
22 column.
23 Certified letters with maps were mailed
24 on Friday November 4th to all property
25 owners of property to be purchased for the
0057
1 project.
2 Synakowski
3 Copies of the Responsiveness Summary for
4 the September public information meetings
5 were mailed, along with notices of the
6 hearing to all those who participated in the
7 meetings, and other interested parties.
8 Copies of the Facilities Plan, the Draft
9 Environmental Information Document, and the
10 Responsiveness Summary and the notice of the
11 public hearing were posted on the county's
12 web site and made available at local
13 libraries.
14 So I think we pretty much covered all
15 the bases that we could cover with notifying
16 people of the project and the meetings,
17 informational meetings as well as this
18 hearing.
19 So with that I have four cards, a fifth
20 one. I'll call these names, I'd like you to
21 come up and make your statement whatever you
22 want entered into the record from here so
23 everybody can hear it and John can get it
24 into his machine. And then we'll go from
25 there.
0058
1 The first name I have is Robert
2 Synakowski
3 Synakowski.
4 ROBERT SYNAKOWSKI: Robert Synakowski,
5 613 Park Avenue, also president of the
6 Syracuse Polish Home, 915 Park Avenue, and I
7 own my grandfather's home on 231 Herriman
8 Street.
9 My major concern is the rerouting. It
10 seems that right now as Harbor Brook cuts
11 through Frazer Park and Sackett and right
12 across to have it turn and come through
13 where we have many businesses and many homes
14 just would cause a major uproar in our
15 lives. Whereas just going straight through
16 would affect practically no one except maybe
17 Genesee Street as it's crossing.
18 We've got a church there, school there,
19 two schools, a social club, travel agency,
20 insurance agency, corner store which is very
21 busy, the Polish Home has about 600 members,
22 Sacred Heart church has who knows how many
23 hundreds.
24 It just seems that it's, and the first
25 plan which would cut through Eureka Street
0059
1 would affect I think hardly anything at all
2 Oberst
3 really. But I would propose, I would
4 advocate just going straight through the way
5 the Harbor Brook does without causing that
6 much of a problem. And that's my concern.
7 Thank you.
8 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: Thank you. I
9 think that issue was brought up earlier and
10 we'll certainly, as Steve said, we had some
11 history in the past with some structural
12 difficulties in there but we'll take this up
13 with our engineers and see what we can do
14 about that.
15 The second one is Bob Oberst. Bob you
16 still want to?
17 MR. OBERST: Sure. Well, I realize --
18 Bob Oberst, 201 Morton Street -- while I
19 realize that there is a lot of difficulty in
20 setting up the details for any project I
21 think that any project like this is an
22 opportunity to add something to the
23 neighborhood as well as improve the sewage.
24 And so I had four issues that I
25 mentioned before. That we've wanted side-
0060
1 walks along Grand Avenue for a long time;
2 Oberst
3 here's a way of getting them. Here's a way
4 of clearing up all of the details of who
5 owns the property. We've asked for them for
6 probably five years, six years. And here's
7 a way of improving the neighborhood.
8 So the four items that I mentioned, the
9 sidewalks on Grand Avenue, the repair of the
10 fields at Fowler, a chance to get better
11 fields in there because this project is
12 going through the middle of the field so
13 there is another thing that we can move
14 along that hasn't been moved along before.
15 At Amy Street there is some buildings
16 that could be removed and again, would
17 improve the neighborhood. And a project
18 like this gives us a chance to do that
19 whenever the city and county and all of the
20 sewage departments can cooperate and improve
21 the neighborhood, this to me is a plus.
22 And then the final one was somehow
23 reopening Frazer pool. I don't know if this
24 can do it but again, when we get different
25 levels of government cooperating and
0061
1 improving the thing, I'm in favor of it.
2 Mabrey
3 Thank you.
4 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: Thank you, Bob.
5 Salendria Mabrey. I guess I should say Bob
6 was representing TNT and Neighborhood Watch.
7 And that Salendria is representing the
8 Partnership for Onondaga Creek.
9 SALENDRIA MABREY: Hi, my name is
10 Salendria Mabrey. I live at 167 Lincoln
11 Avenue on the south side of Syracuse. And
12 my question is, in the Facility Plan you
13 listed advantages and disadvantages of sewer
14 separation projects. Given the pipe crisis
15 in the city as demonstrated by the sewer
16 collapse that just happened on Midland and
17 Colvin, why do you list as a disadvantage
18 for sewer separation projects that they
19 would create additional sanitary sewer lines
20 for the city to operate and maintain? Our
21 infrastructure is failing.
22 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: Here's a new one,
23 Aggie Lane; again for the Partnership for
24 Onondaga Creek.
25 AGGIE LANE: I read the Facilities Plan
0062
1 today pretty carefully. And to tell you the
2 Lane
3 truth for the $55 million that the county is
4 going to spend on capturing only 7 percent
5 more is a travesty. So I would like to know
6 why you're not doing the following.
7 One, ESF is working on a demonstration
8 project for one of the largest CSOs in the
9 upper basin in the retention basin. If you
10 added the other CSO you would have most of
11 the overflow in the upper basin, leaving
12 about only less than two million gallons to
13 store at Site 10 underground, without
14 disinfection, without chlorine.
15 And I don't want to hear the DEC isn't
16 here today, that somehow that's too big a
17 demonstration project. Because in the
18 Facility Plan it says that initially the ACJ
19 said it was just fine to have a Harbor Brook
20 in water system that would capture half of
21 the storm. And once that worked they would
22 just add on the rest of the storm.
23 So I think that as ESF thinks through
24 this biological remediation project in the
25 retention basin and then the final treatment
0063
1 through some wetlands, and if that works, as
2 Lane
3 the other CSO, that means you have very
4 little underground storage for Site 10. Okay.
5 Second. In the middle basin, put in
6 your five or your four floatable controls,
7 they just - almost nothing is coming out of
8 the creek there. But in the other half of
9 the middle portion, that's CSO 5, 6, 6A and
10 7, separate them, for whatever your cost is
11 about $9 million. And don't put in those
12 conveyances that are going to cost at least
13 $4 million, just to take yourself to the
14 lower basin site.
15 So what do you do at the lower basin
16 site? On State Fair Boulevard, Overflow 3
17 and Overflow 4, just are there. You don't
18 need to build the conveyance, that's where
19 they point to. And that's most of the
20 overflow. And then do what you want, you
21 have the Emerson floatable control, put that
22 in. And if you added all of that up you'll
23 probably find out that you captured almost
24 all of the CSOs without disinfection. And
25 this back to back storm stuff is smoke and
0064
1 mirrors to me. Because these storages
2 Lane
3 aren't even going to be that big.
4 And when I look at your costs, not
5 putting any of the conveyances in, all the
6 conveyances that you want to put in are
7 going to cost $11 million. So if you did it
8 this way you wouldn't put in the long
9 conveyances, so what you would have is a
10 large retention basin project, that
11 retention basin between West Onondaga and
12 Grand, taking the Velasko CSO and the other
13 CSO, right by Grand Street, then put an
14 underground storage at Site 10, put five
15 floatable controls in the upper portion of
16 the middle basin, sewer separate for about
17 $9 million the lower portion of the upper
18 middle basin. And then put in another
19 underground storage facility at that State
20 Fair Boulevard site and put the final
21 floatable control at Emerson.
22 And I think if you add it all up you
23 will come in less than even $55 million.
24 It's too bad you couldn't figure it out that
25 way. But in your Facility Plan what you did
0065
1 is, you said under ground storage had to be
2 Pilat
3 at Metro, you had to pump it there, you had
4 to drill all these conveyances all the way
5 down there and you said the cost was $105
6 million. Anybody -- you can cook this, you
7 said sewer separation was, I forgot what,
8 260, I can't even remember now, 5 million.
9 (265) Figure out how to do this project so
10 you get some CSO abatement without chlorine
11 and without stigma, and you get the best
12 treatment for your creek. Thank you.
13 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: Thank you. I
14 don't know if this is David either Pilat or
15 Pilar, I don't know if that's a T or an R.
16 MR. PILAT: T.
17 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: Pilat. Sorry.
18 DAVE PILAT: Dave Pilat, 208 State Fair
19 Boulevard. First of all I'd like to thank
20 the county for having these meetings and
21 keeping us informed of what's going on.
22 I had talked earlier at the previous
23 meetings so I won't refer to that. But now
24 that you've got the new plan where you're,
25 instead of going across, down Sackett Street,
0066
1 across Genesee and then just cutting across
2 Pilat
3 city owned property, mostly vacant property,
4 you intend to divert the sewer now down Park
5 Avenue and then down State Fair Boulevard.
6 Seems to me that there's an awful lot more
7 properties involved, more businesses, more
8 homes involved and it doesn't seem, you
9 know, it would seem that if you stick to the
10 original plan where you're involving less
11 property that might be a better idea.
12 If you do decide to go down Park Avenue
13 and State Fair Boulevard it may be, you
14 know, you may want to compensate, I don't
15 know what you want to call it, inconvenience
16 payments or something like that to those
17 property owners for, you know, I would
18 assume it's going to be some time, it's not
19 going to be an overnight thing, it's going
20 to take time to build those sewers. So it
21 will be financially inconvenient for the
22 businesses and some compensation to the
23 property owners I think is only fair. Thank
24 you for your time.
25 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: Thank you. Those
0067
1 are the only cards that we have. Without
2 Legislator Ryan
3 getting into the question and answer thing,
4 does anybody else have another particular
5 statement that you'd like to make?
6 Something that we can include in the record
7 and address later? Okay. I appreciate
8 that, thank you very much.
9 MS. MILLER: If we can say we'll be
10 available after.
11 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: I did that
12 before. But we're all going to stay here.
13 Yes, sir, Mr. Ryan.
14 LEGISLATOR EDWARD RYAN: Althea,
15 concerned about Midland and I told her I
16 would do this.
17 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: Excuse me, Ed,
18 can you hear him okay, John?
19 COURT REPORTER: A little louder, Ed.
20 LEGISLATOR EDWARD RYAN: Althea
21 represents the Midland Avenue area and when
22 we began this project we talked about
23 remediation of what - different areas, it's
24 an inconvenience, there is no question. We
25 all know that it's going to be an
0068
1 inconvenience. And we try to accommodate
2 Legislator Ryan
3 and make the place better after we leave.
4 Althea is concerned that that may or may not
5 be the case down there. We're looking at
6 homes, streets, whatever here.
7 Althea is concerned that Midland Avenue
8 might get left out. And I'm sure that you
9 know we're familiar with what's going on
10 down there, we don't want that to happen.
11 Given the fact of what we're doing here
12 on the west side in both areas the county
13 has been very gracious and very accommodat-
14 ing to us. And I have to thank Dick, he's
15 been more than helpful to us. But having
16 said that, I think that at some point in
17 time those of us on the west side, whether
18 it be Hudson and down through that area or
19 down on Park Avenue through there, let's
20 face it, we would like to find out what we
21 will encounter in terms of time and what we
22 will encounter in terms of making it better
23 after you leave; and that's I guess what we
24 need.
25 From Althea's standpoint, Althea is a
0069
1 colleague of mine on the legislature who
2 Legislator Ryan
3 represents Midland Avenue. She's concerned
4 they'll be cut out of the loop, which I
5 don't think that will happen. I think that
6 everybody will stand up to the plate and
7 make sure that that place looks a lot letter
8 than it does right now.
9 So could you, for whatever rationale,
10 tell us, I know there was a number of
11 meetings, as to what people wanted to see
12 down in the Harbor Brook area and what they
13 wanted to see down in the State Fair area
14 Boulevard, what possible remediations that
15 we have going down there for enhancements.
16 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: We've discussed
17 those earlier this evening.
18 LEGISLATOR RYAN: At 7:00, must have
19 done it real quick.
20 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: Remember we have
21 had a 6 o'clock meeting and a 7 o'clock
22 meeting.
23 LEGISLATOR RYAN: I apologize.
24 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: All of the issues
25 that have been brought up, which if I can
0070
1 remember them all, the Fowler football field
2 Commissioner
3 as an issue, sidewalks on Genesee Street are
4 an issue --
5 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Grand Avenue.
6 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: I know, but the
7 sidewalks across the street from the church
8 have been an issue --
9 LEGISLATOR RYAN: They take care of
10 them.
11 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: For the most part
12 but they haven't done from State Fair
13 Boulevard to the underpass, and I think
14 that's an appropriate thing to investigate.
15 The sidewalks on Grand Avenue and on Velasko
16 Road, where Velasko Road for some reason has
17 half a sidewalk or half that block is the
18 sidewalk. We've talked about that.
19 There is some confusion with the
20 ownership that we need to get squared away,
21 the property that's on Grand Avenue and on
22 the corner. We talked about the potential
23 for at least discussing with the city and
24 the school board the pool at - what park is
25 that - Frazer?
0071
1 MR. OBERST: Frazer.
2 Commissioner
3 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: Frazer Park. I
4 forgot your fourth item.
5 MR. CLARE: The bar and the two houses.
6 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: Yes, the bar and
7 two houses on --
8 LEGISLATOR RYAN: Joe Derosa owns it.
9 MR. OBERST: Grand Avenue.
10 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: That area, trying
11 to clean that up and maybe make a park like
12 kind of thing in there. There is concern
13 with the owner of part of the property that
14 we need for the RTF with what's going to
15 happen to the value of his property beyond
16 that. And there is several people spoke
17 tonight about the residents on Park Avenue,
18 the concern about going down Park Avenue now
19 instead of the other way.
20 There has been suggestion to make it go
21 straight across where the Brook goes. That
22 is very very unstable structural material
23 there, so I don't know as we can do that,
24 but we're going to take a look at that. And
25 I think that's most if not all of the
0072
1 mitigation things that people have brought
2 Commissioner
3 up. And we already, as you have been so
4 kind as to point out before, we already
5 built the athletic fields as essentially -
6 as part of the mitigation of this project.
7 So we, the county has every intention to
8 do as much as we practically can. Again, I
9 reminded everybody before, Ed, that the
10 county here is all of us.
11 LEGISLATOR RYAN: 80 percent of us. The
12 district.
13 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: Yes, but it's --
14 nobody is paying for all of this except all
15 of us. So we're all paying for this out of
16 our pocket. So when we talk about doing
17 this and saving 600,000 and doing that and
18 saving 800,000, that's real money.
19 LEGISLATOR RYAN: Right.
20 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: So.
21 AGGIE LANE: Clarification. I saw on
22 the back of the yellow sheet there was a
23 notice sent out. The notice sheet. It said
24 that formal comments will be accepted until
25 January --
0073
1 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: I didn't get that
2 Bauck
3 far yet. I have a script. I have a script.
4 LEGISLATOR RYAN: We're talking about
5 our area, not Midland.
6 AGGIE LANE: I know, but city residents.
7 LEGISLATOR RYAN: I understand.
8 BRUCE BAUCK: Bruce Bauck. When Mr.
9 Masterpole asked the question about
10 underground storage you indicated that there
11 would be at some time if it fills up, right,
12 that untreated storage would then be dumped
13 into the stream. Are you saying that with
14 the swirl of technology, which is
15 theoretically built for a one year storm
16 only, that that will not happen?
17 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: We're not going
18 to get into this going back and forth and
19 answering questions, we're here to make
20 statements. But to answer your question
21 quickly, no, that isn't true. There will
22 not be any untreated discharges from the
23 RTF.
24 AGGIE LANE: Ever.
25 BRUCE BAUCK: Ever.
0074
1 COMMISSIONER ELANDER: Ever. Okay.
2 Commissioner
3 First item, remind them about the written
4 comment period until January 6th, 2006. Okay.
5 Please -- and we've got addresses and
6 everything for you, so please send those in.
7 We have written comment sheets available
8 here, Sue has them at the reception table if
9 you would like to use and mail them in over
10 the next month.
11 A Responsiveness Summary again, will be
12 compiled of this meeting and this hearing
13 and sent to those participating here.
14 That's why we needed your addresses and so
15 on.
16 Also a transcript of the meeting and the
17 hearing will be compiled and when completed
18 will be available to the public as well and
19 sent to the DEC and the EPA as we said
20 before. The transcript will be available
21 for public review during normal business
22 hours and without cost at our office the
23 Department of Water and Environment Protec-
24 Tion, located at 650 Hiawatha Boulevard
25 West, that's at the Metropolitan Wastewater
0075
1 Treatment Plant, and at the office of the
2 Commissioner
3 county clerk. And copies will be reproduced
4 upon request and receipt of payment of the
5 cost for reproduction. And it will all be
6 on the website.
7 The county will make a determination and
8 findings of environmental significance
9 concerning the Harbor Brook Sewer Improvement
10 public project, its benefits, location and
11 sites to be acquired. And the county will
12 prepare a final EID and submit a Final
13 Facilities Plan to the DEC for their review
14 and approval. With that, the public hearing
15 is closed.
16 * * * *
17 C E R T I F I C A T E
18 This is to certify that I am a
Certified Shorthand Reporter and Notary
19 Public in and for the State of New York,
that I attended and reported the above
20 entitled proceedings, that I have compared
the foregoing with my original minutes taken
21 therein and that it is a true and correct
transcript thereof and all of the
22 proceedings had therein.
23
_______________________
24 John F. Drury, CSR, RPR
25
0076
1 Dated: December 12, 2005
|
Susan Miller, Project Deputy Director
Onondaga County Dept of Water Environment Protection